D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Yaarel]

Because a lot of us like playing 'regular' seeming people, rather than supernatural people with superpowers. I want to feel like I'm playing as Boromir, or Gimli, or Batman, or Ripley, or any other of the countless badasses without superpowers in media.

'Hollywood Physics' is fine, as it stretches believability without too obviously breaking anything. But I don't want to be playing a character with obvious superpowers all the time.

Even Batman is a superhero, maybe in the tier of 9 thru 12. He might even be multiclass, Fighter, Rogue, maybe some Monk, plus levels in a tech-flavor Artificer.

A funny line in the Spiderman movies is Peter asking Batman what his superpower is. He answers, "Im rich." But this tracks with 5e too, with the total character level corresponding with wealth.

 

[Mephista]

What do the magic sword and enchanted armor do? What sort of "things" are you looking to do? You can't just throw the words around.

Why? If y'all want only specific types of supernatural abilities to counter dnd's magical threats, the burden isn't on me. I simply responded to "You need supernatural power to combat supernatural threats."

Even a basic +1 weapon enchantment is still enough to be supernaturally sharp, increased accuracy / homing ability, supernaturally durable, and break through supernatural resistances in a number of supernatural creatures. The abstractive nature of mechanics really fails at showing how crazy even a basic enchantment is from an in-character perspective.

Like, an army of pikemen aren't going to defeat a modern tank. No arguement from me. But magic items are the dnd equivalent of advanced technology. A +2 arrow is the DnD equivalent of armor piercing rounds, and a magic bow is equivalent to a high power rifle.

But what really matters is that, by "supernatural creatures," what seems to be the mechanical equivalent is monsters' resistances and immunities. If you have a weapon that bypasses those... why can't a basic Fighter or Rogue overcome?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why? If y'all want only specific types of supernatural abilities to counter dnd's magical threats, the burden isn't on me. I simply responded to "You need supernatural power to combat supernatural threats."

Even a basic +1 weapon enchantment is still enough to be supernaturally sharp, increased accuracy / homing ability, supernaturally durable, and break through supernatural resistances in a number of supernatural creatures. The abstractive nature of mechanics really fails at showing how crazy even a basic enchantment is from an in-character perspective.

Like, an army of pikemen aren't going to defeat a modern tank. No arguement from me. But magic items are the dnd equivalent of advanced technology. A +2 arrow is the DnD equivalent of armor piercing rounds, and a magic bow is equivalent to a high power rifle.

But what really matters is that, by "supernatural creatures," what seems to be the mechanical equivalent is monsters' resistances and immunities. If you have a weapon that bypasses those... why can't a basic Fighter or Rogue overcome?

No reason. I thought you meant something more specific than, "can fight creatures resistant/immune to mundane weaponry effectively". If that's all it is, then the tag on it's own is fine, if unexciting.

 

[Mephista]

Your examples seem like two different things to me. How is the girl benchpressing the ogre?

Does it matter? it's something that a "mundane" character can't do but a barbarian could conceivably do.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Does it matter? it's something that a "mundane" character can't do but a barbarian could conceivably do.

To me it does matter. Is there an in-universe reason why the girl is strong enough to benchpress what I assume to be an approximately 800-or so pound creature? I want that reason or I won't accept it.

 

[Mephista]

No reason. I thought you meant something more specific than, "can fight creatures resistant/immune to mundane weaponry effectively". If that's all it is, then the tag on it's own is fine, if unexciting.

People are saying that mundane people can't beat high level threats without magic. If I need to be more specific, then the people saying farmer can't beat the Lord of Death, I want to know specially why not.

And thats not rhetorical. Resistances or tough natural armors are the most obvious reason. Maybe they're supernaturally fast, like Hermes. Then you need homing ability, and increasing your own base speed.

Saying that you can't beat supernatural critters as a badass normal asks "what kind of supernatural?"

 

[Mephista]

To me it does matter. Is there an in-universe reason why the girl is strong enough to benchpress what I assume to be an approximately 800-or so pound creature? I want that reason or I won't accept it.

She's a barbarian. They have supernatural strength. That's entirely their gig. It's what they do. Barbarian rages are supernatural.

 

[Remathilis]

Because a lot of us like playing 'regular' seeming people, rather than supernatural people with superpowers. I want to feel like I'm playing as Boromir, or Gimli, or Batman, or Ripley, or any other of the countless badasses without superpowers in media.

'Hollywood Physics' is fine, as it stretches believability without too obviously breaking anything. But I don't want to be playing a character with obvious superpowers all the time.

The problem is D&D doesn't support that style of play for very long. You can get that sort of play when you are hacking orcs and goblins, but when you get to planar does foes, dragons and high level spellcasters, you fall behind. Which leads to three scenarios, and none of them are good:

1. You increasingly rely on magic items and spellcasters to keep up, to the point you're a supernatural character anyway.

2. You spontaneously become supernatural once you hit level 11, which is defeating the purpose of the badass normal.

3. You become less and less effective as magic oversaturates play, and the badass part of your title gives way to just "normal".

So unless the plan is to never play past level 10, you lose that mundane hero element regardless. If that's the case (and D&D is never going to regress to a more level sense of magic in high level play) then rip the bandaid off and let martials do cool things without the crutch of finding them in a chest or waiting 10+ levels.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The problem is D&D doesn't support that style of play for very long. You can get that sort of play when you are hacking orcs and goblins, but when you get to planar does foes, dragons and high level spellcasters, you fall behind. Which leads to three scenarios, and none of them are good:

1. You increasingly rely on magic items and spellcasters to keep up, to the point you're a supernatural character anyway.

2. You spontaneously become supernatural once you hit level 11, which is defeating the purpose of the badass normal.

3. You become less and less effective as magic oversaturates play, and the badass part of your title gives way to just "normal".

So unless the plan is to never play past level 10, you lose that mundane hero element regardless. If that's the case (and D&D is never going to regress to a more level sense of magic in high level play) then rip the bandaid off and let martials do cool things without the crutch of finding them in a chest or waiting 10+ levels.

Most play happens during the first ten levels, so if the character can work as mundane there, that covers a lot of actual play. Also, a mundane farm boy slowly evolving to become a mythic hero with superhuman powers better fits D&D's levelling paradigm than just starting out as a mythic hero.

 

[RainOnTheSun]

To me, it's fine that low tier fighters are mundane. Low tier casters are supernatural, but they chose classes that are all about the supernatural. People who choose fighters are more interested in beating something with a stick, and low tier casters are still weak enough that you can compete on their level by beating things with sticks. As your levels increase, however, it becomes very hard to suspend disbelief for that mundane feeling, to me. If that girl has a hundred hit points, she'd better be bench-pressing ogres.