Online Character Builder is LIVE!

[Stormtower]

I want to be clear on this: I am a supporter of capitalism and let no one say otherwise. I never once said that he or anyone else "owes" WotC anything. I never said that and if you inferred it from my posts I have to inform you that you are utterly mistaken. Anyone who cancels over this, I can understand. DDi is still of great value, even for the compendium alone, but I can understand why some people would see the character builder as a deal breaker.

What I can't understand or tolerate is "fired us as customers" nonsense. Its abandoning a good majority of value to "punish" a company for not offering a periphery service in the way he wanted. The Character Builder is not the be all end all of 4th Edition. It is an accessory, a periphery product. A toy. Self-righteously quitting the game because of the quality of a side toy is, well, stupid. Its cutting off your nose to spite your face. Its not merely throwing the baby out with the bath water, but burning the house down because you did not feel like cleaning a toilet. Its irrational, petty, and stupid.

I am not saying people shouldn't stop paying for a product that they don't like. I am saying people who quit the hobby over what amounts to an add-on either have a total lack of perspective or are being mean or stupid. They are free to do it though. As I said, I am whole hearted supporter of capitalism. They are more than free to shoot themselves in the foot if they so choose. Or, hey, maybe it will turn out that Pathfinder will be better than sliced bread and they'll attain Nirvana. Just let it be known that this self righteous victim act they are putting on has grown old and tiresome.

How quickly we rush to judgment.

Would it have appeased your needs if I had phrased it "We are firing WotC as our gaming company," rather than the other way around?

Hmm, I am looking around my house. Just looked in the mirror, my nose is still attached. House doesn't seem to be burning down. Baby's still in the tub with the bathwater. I don't see a bullethole in my foot. Heck, my 4E books (the non-Essentials 2007-2010 stuff) are still on my shelf! Does that mean... I can still use them with pencil & paper if I don't like the new online CB? Wow, whoda thunk it.

You call me a self-righteous victim? That raises my hackles, right there. I ran 4E at the last three GenCons and was tapped to judge the 2010 D&D Championship preliminary and finals rounds there. It was awesome! 4E ran great, I had fun, and my tables had fun. I've been one of the on-the-fence customers for the last three years, buying D&D and Pathfinder stuff and running both, because I am fracking lucky and can afford the time and $$ for both. No way am I "quitting the hobby."

As far as consumer loyalty goes, I'm ticked off that the Essentials launch and the new CB have reduced my existing 4E collection in value. Note that, as another poster said, value is a very subjective term. In my opinion, there is no further perceived VALUE in remaining a customer of WotC. Yet, there has been and remains perceived value (for ME, not you) in supporting Paizo with my consumer dollars.

Perhaps you are correct that I am "punishing" Wizards of the Coast by withdrawing my financial support when their products no longer suit my needs. How else shall I voice my displeasure with their business decisions? You come on here and drop accusations of being "irrational, petty and stupid." Shall I in turn say the same of those who have decided to stay with 4E and the new CB?

No, not so much. Want to know why? It's their choice. Know why else? It's disrespectful to them. One more reason why not: I have been a TTRPG gamer since 1982, and I want our hobby to survive & thrive. Only mutual respect and open discussion can engender its survival and evolution. I don't begrudge anyone their 4E gaming, so leave off with the personal accusations of self-righteousness. We might have more in common than you think, aside from our different game system preferences. But you chose to drop terms like "irrational, petty and stupid." Tell me why the edition wars are raging again? Whose fault is it? Check my posting history on here -- I have consistently argued that room exists in the TTRPG world for both systems (plus many more!).

What has grown old and tiresome is the lack of cooperation and unity among gamers since the 4E/PF split. We are all here largely because we are passionate about fantasy RPGs. The discourse between gamers has rapidly grown harsher and more judgmental. Play what you like, and I'll do the same.

 

[fanboy2000]

That's not a good idea. The latest update removed RPGA items from the Compendium and the Builder - there was some noise of RPGA fans about this, already - so it's not there for a reason.

Seekers of the Ashen Crown was the Eberron Adventure that came out last year for sale. It's not an RPGA adventure.

 

[boolean]

((No, wrong - it's a different issue. Shadowdance is supposed to be both cloth and leather, but it only shows up as a cloth variant))

According to reports, Shadowdance armor is listed as "Type: Cloth and leather".

Unfortunately, the software is expecting "Type: Cloth and Leather".

 

[Bagpuss]

According to reports, Shadowdance armor is listed as "Type: Cloth and leather".

Unfortunately, the software is expecting "Type: Cloth and Leather".

Seems you are right.

Shadowdance is listed as "Armor: Cloth, leather" and only appears under Cloth, where as for example Runic Armor is listed as "Armor: Chain, Cloth, Leather, Hide, Plate, Scale" and appear under all of them.

What's odd is the compendium has Shadowdance armor listed as "Armor: Cloth, Leather" so obviously they aren't reading from the same database, which I thought was part of the point of moving online.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

As I said in the other thread, I want to state that it's the height of entitlement when paying customers outright demand that the products they are given work and function properly when they receive them after paying for it.

And it's not the customers that're acting entitled.

 

[tuxgeo]

Seems you are right.

Shadowdance is listed as "Armor: Cloth, leather" and only appears under Cloth, where as for example Runic Armor is listed as "Armor: Chain, Cloth, Leather, Hide, Plate, Scale" and appear under all of them.

What's odd is the compendium has Shadowdance armor listed as "Armor: Cloth, Leather" so obviously they aren't reading from the same database, which I thought was part of the point of moving online.

And the new CB can't tell that "leather" with a lowercase "L" is the same word as "Leather" with an uppercase "L". (As already indicated above with the bolding of the L in "Leather," but not stated in words.)

 

[ProfessorCirno]

"people," as in... me? Go ahead and say so if you think so. I'm right here.

Fair enough. We are the equivalent of car geeks here, though, really. We're the type of people who log on to car forums and discuss all about cars, including the theory of cars and transportation. By creating an account, let alone posting with it, we are no longer 'most folks.'

That aside, I still think 3.5 and 4E are quite different. Obviously we disagree there.

I've begun questioning this, personally.

We can, I think, all agree that D&D is an inherently nerdy hobby. We can also, I think, all agree that the average person spends an incredible amount of time on the internet.

True, most D&D players will not read EN World.

Or the WotC website

Or the Penny Arcade forums

Or Something Awful

Or any other gaming forum...

...At the same time.

But I think the vast, vast majority of D&D gamers reads one of those. People like to talk about their hobbies, and what better place to do that then the internet? I doubt there's many D&D players who have no web access at all, and it's completely natural to look up D&D if you enjoy playing it. Compounding this is the fact that, well, we're nerds. Congregating to websites to discuss minutia is more or less what we do.

So yeah, I think the idea of the clueless casual D&D gamer who literally knows nothing about the game outside of going to the local bookstore to play it with friends is false. I think that's really far, far rarer then anything else.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

I have probably played with the online CB for approx 10 hrs or so. I have created probably 40 to 50 characters (printed them to pdf to avoid the 20 character limit). I have crashed the builder 3 times. Each time was when I was importing a character from the old character builder.

I am running Windows 7 on my laptop with this. I have used Chrome, IE 9 and Firefox with the builder. It has worked fine and has worked quickly for me.

So I wish I could respond to those that are having problems.

 

[nerfherder]

I've begun questioning this, personally.

We can, I think, all agree that D&D is an inherently nerdy hobby. We can also, I think, all agree that the average person spends an incredible amount of time on the internet.

True, most D&D players will not read EN World.

Or the WotC website

Or the Penny Arcade forums

Or Something Awful

Or any other gaming forum...

...At the same time.

But I think the vast, vast majority of D&D gamers reads one of those. People like to talk about their hobbies, and what better place to do that then the internet? I doubt there's many D&D players who have no web access at all, and it's completely natural to look up D&D if you enjoy playing it. Compounding this is the fact that, well, we're nerds. Congregating to websites to discuss minutia is more or less what we do.

So yeah, I think the idea of the clueless casual D&D gamer who literally knows nothing about the game outside of going to the local bookstore to play it with friends is false. I think that's really far, far rarer then anything else.

And yet it describes 50% of my group perfectly. Outside of a Monday night, they couldn't care less about D&D.

Most groups I've played in have only had 1 or 2 "hardcore" gamers who buy magazines or browse gaming websites. They will very occassionally pop into a gaming store when they're in town with their spouse shopping, but that, and the weekly game, is the limit to their exposure to gaming.

 

[Obryn]

And yet it describes 50% of my group perfectly. Outside of a Monday night, they couldn't care less about D&D.

It describes ... well, everyone but me, in my own group. Two have DDI subscriptions but don't even know what ENWorld is, or care about online forums. The other four or five just play on Wednesdays and are done.

-O