Online Digital Tools Disappearance Risk Discussion

[Retreater]

Not sure of the context here. If you want a focused discussion it would probably be helpful to restate the main point or link to the post.

The short version was that I had gotten on the Free League/Demiplane partnership thread and began to bemoan subscription services for gaming content, arguing that renting your gaming content endangers your ability to continue playing the game in the face of external factors such as corporate updates to your game, folding services, technological compatibility, the need to continue subscribing to services, and the decisions of publishers who may lose rights to publish certain books, etc.
There are certainly those who disagree with valid points, but I felt it was a good idea to stop posting in that thread to celebrate this business deal. So I started this tangent thread.

 

[Retreater]

If you feel that as a system it's so clunky it needs digital tools, is it really that good in your estimation?

Certainly, that is a fault of that system. It was a way around what I thought was the biggest failing of the system. Without the way around, yes, it's a flawed system. And for many of us who liked the system, we would like to have those tools available. It is was as much a part of the game experience as a one-inch grid is for Pathfinder or 5e. Yes, you can absolutely play theater of the mind, but imagine if Paizo or WotC stopping producing battle grids and forbade others from doing so. I hope that conveys how much of an inconvenience and loss this is to me and my preferred way of playing.
So I guess the point of my argument is that I don't like only renting content, character generation tools, and playing tools. If I don't also get something that can survive the ending of the platform/provider (so if it's not a PDF or physical book), that's a red flag that what I'm buying is a temporary game experience.
Put another way. I stream music on Spotify. If I really love an album, I'll buy it on vinyl also in the event something happens on Spotify or the artist is not available.

 

[dirtypool]

There are certainly those who disagree with valid points,

Just as you continually disagree with the valid point that such subscription services are entirely voluntarily and have not in any way replaced access to physical tools in a way that makes games unplayable.

Certainly, that is a fault of that system.

Other 4e players have told you in both threads that they disagree with this assessment. You continue to present your perspective as objective fact, and then restate it again as such when others express a counter opinion.

If I don't also get something that can survive the ending of the platform/provider (so if it's not a PDF or physical book), that's a red flag that what I'm buying is a temporary game experience.

This somewhat conflates primary content and 3PP

Put another way. I stream music on Spotify. If I really love an album, I'll buy it on vinyl also in the event something happens on Spotify or the artist is not available.

Then why have you pushed back so hard on my statement that you can do the exact same thing with TTRPG’s? Scroll back through my posts, you’ll find this is what I’ve advocated this entire time.

 

[Umbran]

Other 4e players have told you in both threads that they disagree with this assessment.

Mod note:

Folks, could we please not drag grudges and such across threads? Thanks.

 

[dirtypool]

Mod note:

Folks, could we please not drag grudges and such across threads? Thanks.

No grudge implied, I was just stating that multiple people had disagreed with the assessment being presented as objective fact.

 

[Umbran]

No grudge implied, I was just stating that multiple people had disagreed with the assessment being presented as objective fact.

Mod Note:
When a moderator speaks in their moderation role, that is NOT an invitation to respond. In fact, we ask that you not comment on moderation in-thread. If there's something you need to note, please take it to private messages.

 

[Thomas Shey]

How much a given game system needs a digital tool to run it is going to be in the eye of the beholder. Some people have claimed this about the Hero System, which I ran for 30 years without any in-play tools, and probably for 15 without anything more digital than a word processor.

My own feeling is that I'm resistant to any software that I'm dependent on anyone else but myself to use, beyond having an internet connection in the first place, and feel the same about materials (I own Kindle books, but the only reason I haven't long since jailbreaked them and stored them offline is its too much a pain in the behind).

(I should note that the title of this thread is deceptive; PDFs and other ebooks and software are digital content, but they aren't universally dependent on the supplier's sufferance).

 

[Jd Smith1]

I prefer pdfs over tree-killing, eco-destroying print books, mainly because I'm sick of dusting bookshelves.

But if Roll20, to use your example, went belly-up, the lost book content would be the least of my concerns. Moreover, the information on the single 5e book I have there is available for free on various legal databases across the Net, so I've lost nothing.

As to pdfs in general, I vastly prefer them over physical books: they are easier to use (if bookmarked, which most are these days), and I have copies of all mine stored on physical data drives, so even should something happen to both my home and the Net at the same time, I would still have them.

Whereas I have lost and damaged countless physical books in my lifetime.

 

[Retreater]

(I should note that the title of this thread is deceptive; PDFs and other ebooks and software are digital content, but they aren't universally dependent on the supplier's sufferance).

Sorry. I wasn't trying to be alarmist or deceptive. Is there a better title you'd suggest? Perhaps I can edit it.

 

[Voadam]

Sorry. I wasn't trying to be alarmist or deceptive. Is there a better title you'd suggest? Perhaps I can edit it.

I'd suggest changing digital content (which includes PDFs you own) to online digital tools if that is what you want to focus on.