Only the Lonely: Why We Demand Official Product

[Fenris-77]

Polishes my geek badge.
Answer these questions 3. Use the Realms, 5E and Season 8
1. Who is the blood baron.
2. What is masked lord job?
3. What is the stats of the Blood Baron.

Did you spit on your geek badge before polishing it? I ask because I may have, inadvertently of course, spat on it again. Her, let me lend you a hanky...

 

[Azzy]

Here's the thing. I have very, very limited time and I don't even had time to prepare everything for my adventures, let alone the rest of the game world. If you do, great. Now, I'm very good at improvisation, so it doesn't bother me to make something up on the fly. However, many DMs are not good at improvisation and need those details figured out in advance.

I generally only have time to create an outline for my adventures with some encounters and have to improvise everything in-between. Were I one of the many DMs who wasn't good at improvisation, I wouldn't be able to DM a game that wasn't pre-made. Having an updated version of Greyhawk with those details filled in by WotC would allow those DMs to run Greyhawk.

You can't just expect those sorts of DMs to just "make a decision" when it comes up. Creativity is not the same as making a ruling on a rule.

The problem here, though, can easily be solved by just choosing which sourcebook and era you're using: the Folio, the Boxed Set, From the Ashes, The Adventure Begins, or the Living Greyhawk Gazateer. If you're using the LGG, go by that and ignore everything else. If you're using the boxed set, go by that and ignore everything else. The thing with tiny inconsistentcies like this is that they are so easy to resolve—just choose one and move on with it. No creativity or effort required.

Greyhawk, after all, was originally designed as a bare skeleton for the DM to dress up and make their own (unlike the Forgotten Realms which will tell you Elminster's favorite tea or who the Mullhorondi's favorite top pop stars are). If you want something not in the setting books to happen (like including warforged), make it happen (say that they were created by the Shield Lands to bolster their forces to combat the legions of Iuz). Certainly don't sweat the small stuff like the levels or name of a country's ruler (especially when you can just choose which source you're considering authoratative).

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Anti-medieval and just plain not medieval aren't the same thing. Not only aren't they same thing, but saying the former assumes that the current edition of D&D was in any way attempting to simulate the actual medieval period, which I will submit it was not (regardless of the intent of previous editions). I don't think it's something that D&D wants to tackle. Not only would that be entirely counter to WotC's attempts at inclusivity in the game as regards women and the LGBTQ+ community, but the actual medieval period was flush to the gills with rampant racism and pretty much every other nasty -ism you care to mention, none of which is anything WotC wants anywhere near their game.

D&D's medieval fantasy is medieval only in the window dressing. Mind you, that's my favorite bit, so I'm ok with that.

Seems like a cowardly reason. Just because a text includes -isms doesn't mean its creators ascribe to them.

 

[Maxperson]

The problem here, though, can easily be solved by just choosing which sourcebook and era you're using: the Folio, the Boxed Set, From the Ashes, The Adventure Begins, or the Living Greyhawk Gazateer. If you're using the LGG, go by that and ignore everything else. If you're using the boxed set, go by that and ignore everything else. The thing with tiny inconsistentcies like this is that they are so easy to resolve—just choose one and move on with it. No creativity or effort required.

Greyhawk, after all, was originally designed as a bare skeleton for the DM to dress up and make their own (unlike the Forgotten Realms which will tell you Elminster's favorite tea or who the Mullhorondi's favorite top pop stars are). If you want something not in the setting books to happen (like including warforged), make it happen (say that they were created by the Shield Lands to bolster their forces to combat the legions of Iuz). Certainly don't sweat the small stuff like the levels or name of a country's ruler (especially when you can just choose which source you're considering authoratative).

This doesn't solve the issue of my not getting 5e Greyhawk playtested setting specific crunch to go with the fluff. One of my first posts on this topic mentioned that.

 

[Fenris-77]

Seems like a cowardly reason. Just because a text includes -isms doesn't mean its creators ascribe to them.

It's a list if reasons why D&D isn't and shouldn't be a full medieval simulation. Nothing cowardly going on, just good decisions by WotC.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

It's a list if reasons why D&D isn't and shouldn't be a full medieval simulation. Nothing cowardly going on, just good decisions by WotC.

OK. Based on your posting history, I don't think we're going to agree on much. D&D as art > D&D as business.

 

[Azzy]

This doesn't solve the issue of my not getting 5e Greyhawk playtested setting specific crunch to go with the fluff. One of my first posts on this topic mentioned that.

That's a different issue than what you were discussing in the post I quoted, but okay. Wanting some crunch support is fair enough. Though, as someone that has run and played Greyhawk in 5e, what exactly are you looking for crunchwise? I'm not really seeing anything that can't be handled by the options we already have (unless you're really trying to shoehorn something extremely niche)—except in the case of some monsters (and I'm always open to new monsters) or new backgrounds.

 

[Fenris-77]

OK. Based on your posting history, I don't think we're going to agree on much. D&D as art > D&D as business.

Whether or not D&D is, or should be, a full medieval simulation has nothing to with D&D as art. D&D as your preference maybe, but not as art. Moreover, while the fact that WotC is actually a business might rub some people's rhubarb the wrong way, it is and business decisions will affect how they publish. I point this out pretty frequently, but that has nothing to do with my personal appreciation for the game.

In my personal aesthetic appreciation for the game, past and current, I would agree that it shouldn't be a full medieval simulation. Not for any kind of business reasons, but because the stories I want to tell have very little to do with the realities of the medieval period. I'd appreciate it if you didn't straw man my D&D aesthetics without having the first idea what they are.

 

[3catcircus]

My question about the ranger who is both 14th and 15th level: How will the players find out his level? Why are they talking to this ruler? Are they actually in combat with him? Where's his army of soldiers to protect him? Why would his class/level matter? When do PCs ever know the class/level of an NPC?

It's not that players will know his level. It's that mechanically, a difference in level provides additional capability that a DM may need to take into account.

Let's say for argument's same that the PCs end up fighting this guy. The party wizard casts a fireball. The Rgr14 takes half damage on a save. The Rgr15 who takes Evasion as his archetype feature at lvl 15 takes no damage on a save.

A good DM isn't going to say "he made the save.". He'll say something like "you watch as the fireball explodes. As you see the flames dissipate, Kimbertos casually puts out a small fire that erupted on his shirt sleeve but is otherwise unscathed. He doesn't look amused."

Do the players go "uh oh this guy is unstoppable" or do they do their research, knowing that the king started out as a ranger before being crowned king and realize that more powerful rangers have the ability to shrug off such attacks?

Yes, yes the DM can fudge things, but the more you handwave without a valid reason, the more it comes back to bite you.

 

[billd91]

Seems like a cowardly reason. Just because a text includes -isms doesn't mean its creators ascribe to them.

Given the blowback WotC has received from people complaining about efforts to be inclusive and complaining about it "not being realistic" to be so progressive by default, I think it's a pretty effing brave reason.