[OOC] The Endless Falls Character Discussion Thread
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Rikandur Azebol
First Post
Kelleris said:Rikandur - Unfortunately the God of Death could just default to his second option: a severe beating.
And I have learned through long personal experience that you can justify anything, no matter how cheesy, with some creativity in the background. For what it's worth (*sigh*) I agree that Rahveon should have high saves. I just think there's a difference between "high and within reasonable limits" and "cheesy, broken-high."
Gods aren't that dangerous. My wizard, who were slain yesterday by LUCKY Planetar had two of them on his hitlist. Tredemous resouces were wasted but playing on all gods common weakness, arrogance, allowed him to lure both into point of no escape. These guys were so called combat oriented gods ... with major holes in magical power. And both were slain avay from Riki, he don't want to became one. In my campaing one who kills god, becames one. Riki avoided this fate twice. And on his homeland Prime along with second wizard in the group ... they destroyed churches of all known gods, second wizard installed ancestor worship in the religious hole that was left. Rki ended in Abyss ... became infamous. In short demons weren't even naming him.
And I think that God of Death, if he is typical, and heals slower than Tsunami, would have hard time fighting her. Unless his AC is over the roof, say 65.
Uchm, and remeber that Elefant have major drawbacks in addition to the power. No super-healing, like Tsunami, so he need to rest each time he take beating. That thing is balancing enough, for me. In Abyss he wouldn't last for too long. Too big for the Demon Princes to ignore ... and no skills at hiding for rest.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Wrahn-No problem, I supose if this all would work ... that they would give my wizard sort of a body to anserv some questions. Then he would kill himself and vaporise his soul.
Later his auto triggering "reviwe engine" should restore him. I was shocked mainly because it was first death for my wizard !
And, belive or not, if someone becames half-fiend just from being in Abyss ... then every Celestial may have reasons to attack him. And Riki stabbed her, unfortunaltely with his anti-fiend dagger, and ruined Celestial's disguise who was trying to redeem promising demon. Demon fled in dread,
, and not because of seeing celestial. And Riki is rude, and use harsh words even towards the women.How many more resons could I give, to explain that Planetar could lost her nerves ?
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Mad Hatter
First Post
Wrahn, everyone is pretty much in the same ballpark. Perivas is willing to change and drop a feat because Kell did and Ferrix is willing to change. The only one holding up the show happens to be you. So why don't you go ahead and conform to the group; because if Kelleris was on the receiving end you too would be bemoaning the point and demonstrating how he is being disruptive.
You're exasperated? How about your fellow players who look over at your character sheet and see this massive block of cheese and brokenness that isn't even funny? Your fellow players have a problem big enough that they are working together to get a solution and you simply look at the words and say: "Well the guidelines support what I do." Well how about showing a little constraint and consideration to the people who are playing with you? What would it take? How does that look that everyone else is willing to give up *something* and you aren't? You just rely on the good ol' guidelines.
So the only thing that's making me scratch my head is why are you fighting so hard over this? The purpose of this thread was to identify major sticking points and then fix it. Kell has fixed something, Perivas is going to fix something and Ferrix will fix it if you do. So we are asking you, player to player, to fix it. We've had this long, painful discussion about if what we do is cheese or not, fair or not. The majority of it has been spent commenting on Rahveon the Mountain Shaker. Shouldn't that be a clue that maybe, just maybe, the Elephant isn't up to snuff and should be changed to be more accomodating? Be a sport and fix it.
Rikandur- Wrahn won't take a beating. I defy anything to get past his defenses at all and not kill someone else in the party. Simply gaze upon his character sheet and notice his immunities granted to him by items. He has every immunity that Tsunami has, plus some, save poison. Then you can tell me that he is balanced.
You're exasperated? How about your fellow players who look over at your character sheet and see this massive block of cheese and brokenness that isn't even funny? Your fellow players have a problem big enough that they are working together to get a solution and you simply look at the words and say: "Well the guidelines support what I do." Well how about showing a little constraint and consideration to the people who are playing with you? What would it take? How does that look that everyone else is willing to give up *something* and you aren't? You just rely on the good ol' guidelines.
So the only thing that's making me scratch my head is why are you fighting so hard over this? The purpose of this thread was to identify major sticking points and then fix it. Kell has fixed something, Perivas is going to fix something and Ferrix will fix it if you do. So we are asking you, player to player, to fix it. We've had this long, painful discussion about if what we do is cheese or not, fair or not. The majority of it has been spent commenting on Rahveon the Mountain Shaker. Shouldn't that be a clue that maybe, just maybe, the Elephant isn't up to snuff and should be changed to be more accomodating? Be a sport and fix it.
Rikandur- Wrahn won't take a beating. I defy anything to get past his defenses at all and not kill someone else in the party. Simply gaze upon his character sheet and notice his immunities granted to him by items. He has every immunity that Tsunami has, plus some, save poison. Then you can tell me that he is balanced.
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Rikandur Azebol
First Post
Mad Hatter said:
Let's compare:
Rhaveon- Immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. Immune to Criticals and Sneak Attack, fire immunity.
Tsunami-Immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and negative energy, immune to criticals,immune to ability damage/drain, subdual damage, poison, mind affecting spells.
I disagree about who have more and better immunities.
Rhaveon can tire or be afraid. Tsunami ? Absolutly not. Elefant can heal as fast as Maug ? I doubt. He is just half as much in HP's, and in antimagic field would suffer terribly and be at big disadvantage. Most of Tsunami's immunites are inherent racial traits. She would just jump half distance that she could with magic.
And if confronted with Arion, Elefant would lose. Why ? Arion could stole all his items, and armour, before Rhavon even notice. Sleigh of Hand ...
And without his item induced immunites he would be as vurnerable to damage as anyone. Except Rogues with Dexterous Will and Fortitude. Sneaky guys are hard to kill.
But You have a point. Rest of players involwed are changing, or changed, to fit the party better. Let's wait what Wrahn would say for such statement.
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Let me try this one more time. Cutting away the histrionics the "saves" discussion thus far:
Kelleris: I think all our saves are too high and we should lower them.
Wrahn: I don't think there is any way to tell. Let's wait and see before we do anything.
Neither side is being unreasonable. Let's not dwell on this any longer, because all we are doing is circling the same subject and if we keep doing it we are going to go down the drain.
Mad Hatter-
Your post was inflammatory, inaccurate and unhelpful. Please try to keep the negativity to a minimum, it is not a good way to debate and leads to unhelpful confrontations.
Kelleris: I think all our saves are too high and we should lower them.
Wrahn: I don't think there is any way to tell. Let's wait and see before we do anything.
Neither side is being unreasonable. Let's not dwell on this any longer, because all we are doing is circling the same subject and if we keep doing it we are going to go down the drain.
Mad Hatter-
Your post was inflammatory, inaccurate and unhelpful. Please try to keep the negativity to a minimum, it is not a good way to debate and leads to unhelpful confrontations.
Take this for what it is worth:
(I did not include Caira in the skills analysis, I am not sure what the number is (I think it is ranks but not sure))
Skills:
Arion 1069 (200% of average)
Su’ryuu 546 (102%)
Sigrun 539 (101%)
Solarion 460 (86%)
Tsunami 308 (57%)
Rahveon 286 (54%)
Average: 534.6666667
Saves:
Solarian: +143 (143% of average)
Rahveon: +135 (135%)
Sigrun: +103 (103%)
Caira: +95 (95%)
Arion: +90 (90%)
Su’ryuu: +71 (71%)
Tsunami: +65 (65%)
Average: 100.2857143
So on skills we go from 54% to 200%
and saves we go from 65% to 143%
Should we all stay within a certain percent of each other?
What is an acceptable range if we do?
And where is the percent range to prevent us from become monotenous?
(I did not include Caira in the skills analysis, I am not sure what the number is (I think it is ranks but not sure))
Skills:
Arion 1069 (200% of average)
Su’ryuu 546 (102%)
Sigrun 539 (101%)
Solarion 460 (86%)
Tsunami 308 (57%)
Rahveon 286 (54%)
Average: 534.6666667
Saves:
Solarian: +143 (143% of average)
Rahveon: +135 (135%)
Sigrun: +103 (103%)
Caira: +95 (95%)
Arion: +90 (90%)
Su’ryuu: +71 (71%)
Tsunami: +65 (65%)
Average: 100.2857143
So on skills we go from 54% to 200%
and saves we go from 65% to 143%
Should we all stay within a certain percent of each other?
What is an acceptable range if we do?
And where is the percent range to prevent us from become monotenous?
Rikandur-
immune to ability damage/drain
Is huge, I can't even tell you...
(but I will try) I used to play a Shifter in an epic game, we had an enemy that could infect people with a disease and force them to join a hive mind, which then would mutate it's "extensions" to better suit it's needs.
One of the most powerful mutation was based on a Thorciasid which would have ripped us appart if I hadn't been able to turn into an Iron Golem. Then it became pretty pathetic.
No, I will gladly give you the advantage in the special defenses and you get to fight all the Pseudonatural Bone Oozes we run accross.
immune to ability damage/drain
Is huge, I can't even tell you...
(but I will try) I used to play a Shifter in an epic game, we had an enemy that could infect people with a disease and force them to join a hive mind, which then would mutate it's "extensions" to better suit it's needs.
One of the most powerful mutation was based on a Thorciasid which would have ripped us appart if I hadn't been able to turn into an Iron Golem. Then it became pretty pathetic.
No, I will gladly give you the advantage in the special defenses and you get to fight all the Pseudonatural Bone Oozes we run accross.
Rikandur Azebol
First Post
Wrahn said:
Ops, I had overreached and assigned for Tsunami immunity that she have not. She isn't immune to negative energy attacks, thos that deal normal damage.
Chmm, if it eat stone, she's snack. From the other way, Rhaveon might stop Elder Titan fev round longer than Tsunami. And with support of heavy artillery in shape of backstabbing Akumanga, for we couldn't count on Arion in this like Kelleris wrote himself, Titam might even feel some pain.
Will You agree that our both fighters have their advantages and disadvantages ? And one more question, just out of curiosity, what would You point out as weak spots of Tsunami ? I had pointed out what I consider to be waek spots of Mountain Shaker.
Rikandur Azebol
First Post
Wrahn said:
Ops, I had overreached and assigned for Tsunami immunity that she have not. She isn't immune to negative energy attacks, those that deal normal damage.
Chmm, if it eat stone, she's snack. From the other way, Rhaveon might stop Elder Titan fev round longer than Tsunami. And with support of heavy artillery in shape of backstabbing Akumanga, for we couldn't count on Arion in this like Kelleris wrote himself, Titam might even feel some pain.
Will You agree that our both fighters have their advantages and disadvantages ? And one more question, just out of curiosity, what would You point out as weak spots of Tsunami ? I had pointed out what I consider to be waek spots of Mountain Shaker.
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