(OOC) Transformers: Robots in Disguise!

[Vendetta]

Brother Shatterstone…
I gave the 50% because I felt like that was fair. +20% just doesn’t seem worth it to me… So… with speed increase, yes, the shift is a bit more of an advantage than the feat. I won’t take that away from you.

Vendetta what do you mean that doesn't sound like much fun?

I said that? Boy am I stupid. It would be tons of fun to chop into Starscream’s whining @$$ with Bushido while stopping him from talking by shoving the business end of one of those flamethrowers into his mouth to watch the flames blast out of where Bushido cut.

*snip* …I was a tad bit worried you would drive up from California and beat me with a G1 Optimus Prime figure repeatedly and profusely… *snip* …That's what you get for slacking off.

Alright you… keep it up and I just might have to. I still have my G1 Optimus Prime figure. I’m only missing the little car thing that went in the trailer… so watch yourself

I'm not the greatest rules guy, and I don't have the hardness rules memorized but I memory serves me correct, its allot like DR… Except nothing can bypass it so Jackknife’s would be like 10/- right?

If I’m wrong someone pleases correct me.

If I'm right, it doesn't happen often btw, then does it stack if we get attacked by something other than a transformer?

Yes, it is basically DR (hardness/-) AND stacks with the hardness you get from being a soldier, if you took that class ability (If you did, you would have 11/-)

And yes, if you get shot by a human tank, then your DR would be 20/- or 21/- which actually makes sense to me because human tanks NEVER hurt any Decepticon and with just the 10/Nexus Energy, a tank would be able to do enough damage per shot to penetrate that 10 barrier. (It might be able to do enough to get through 20 also, but not enough to be real worrisome.)

I love the hardness rule! I was looking at the 10/Nexus DR and thinking, 'now why would Transformers be able to bypass that?' Because if you watch the show and movie, they spend half their time beating on each other to little or no lasting effect. If I wanted to make a Robotech mech, then I'd want something that blows up the first time it's shot, but not a Transformer that does that.

So either the hardness or you could just ignore the 'everything is Nexus' and only given Nexus power to REALLY special weapons (Megatron's arm cannon comes to mind)

Good. I think we will roll with the Hardness thing then… that will help a great deal. I don’t really understand how a Transformer imbues a telephone pole with Nexus energy when he rips it out of the ground to bash Uglyatron with it… but oh well… I can kind of understand it with their ranged energy weapons. They have no ammo so I kind of assume that their Nexus Energy Generator supplies the energy needed to fire or make the ammo to fire their guns.

But on the other hand, I didn't see it restricted anywhere. Other than the way class bonus feats are restricted. The way I read is you have form feats which can be purchased with the form feat priority, class bonus feats which can be purchased with bonus feats feats, and level feats feats which can purchase any feats, which you make the prereqs for such as level, feat or ability score.

Still not sure which way I want to go with this. Generally, you can chose special feat types with character level feats, and so the form feats would be available every three levels. I never saw in the rules where form feats could ONLY be taken at first level via the priority, but then, if that’s not the case, why allow delaying and giving out so many? Heck, why even make it a priority… So… I think that we’ll say you can only take form feats with the form feats specifically.

Which means that I’ll probably be adding some kind of bonus priority thing as talked about above or some way to gain a few extra form feats as you progress. I’m open to suggestions on this if anyone wants to work up some kind of options for us. I’ll make a decision on this soon and post it later tonight as well as getting the lead in story posted so the RPing can commence.

Also… I’m thinking about making transformers just a bit tougher and granting them bonus Hit Points equal to the Hardness rating I gave out times 2. So Jack-knife would have a starting HP bonus of +20 (it’s a base at level 1, no per level effect), Bushido would have +16 Hit points and Stickshift +18

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I gave the 50% because I felt like that was fair. I won’t take that away from you.

Cool.

Alright you… keep it up and I just might have to. I still have my G1 Optimus Prime figure. I’m only missing the little car thing that went in the trailer… so watch yourself

Well if I can pick the way I go... "Oh yeah how did you die?" "Optimus Prime stomp a mud hole in me..."

That is quite the catch, I have nothing left over from childhood transformer wise... As I told you on MSN I picked up a few of the G1 TRU rereleases awhile back. (Which reminds me I need to go and buy some more...)

Yes, it is basically DR (hardness/-) AND stacks with the hardness you get from being a soldier, if you took that class ability (If you did, you would have 11/-)

Cool, but FYI I didn't I took the defensive ability, I forget the name, but it makes you harder to hit if the same foe attacks you in the next round.

And yes, if you get shot by a human tank, then your DR would be 20/- or 21/- which actually makes sense to me because human tanks NEVER hurt any Decepticon and with just the 10/Nexus Energy, a tank would be able to do enough damage per shot to penetrate that 10 barrier.

Cool, makes perfect sense to me. (Both IC and mechanically)

Also… I’m thinking about making transformers just a bit tougher and granting them bonus Hit Points equal to the Hardness rating I gave out times 2. So Jack-knife would have a starting HP bonus of +20 (it’s a base at level 1, no per level effect), Bushido would have +16 Hit points and Stickshift +18

Wow, I really like that idea! It just seems crazy that a Bumblebee the "solider" has just as many hit points as Optimus Prime the solider. (Assuming they are the same level, abilities, etc.) Theirs just no way that Bumblebee could come close.

 

[rangerjohn]

Still not sure which way I want to go with this. Generally, you can chose special feat types with character level feats, and so the form feats would be available every three levels. I never saw in the rules where form feats could ONLY be taken at first level via the priority, but then, if that’s not the case, why allow delaying and giving out so many? Heck, why even make it a priority… So… I think that we’ll say you can only take form feats with the form feats specifically.

Which means that I’ll probably be adding some kind of bonus priority thing as talked about above or some way to gain a few extra form feats as you progress. I’m open to suggestions on this if anyone wants to work up some kind of options for us. I’ll make a decision on this soon and post it later tonight as well as getting the lead in story posted so the RPing can commence.

Also… I’m thinking about making transformers just a bit tougher and granting them bonus Hit Points equal to the Hardness rating I gave out times 2. So Jack-knife would have a starting HP bonus of +20 (it’s a base at level 1, no per level effect), Bushido would have +16 Hit points and Stickshift +18

Just be aware there are form feats on the class bonus feat lists.

One other thing, I need a ruling. Do you need quick morph to vechicle charge?

 

[Vendetta]

It just seems crazy that a Bumblebee the "solider" has just as many hit points as Optimus Prime the solider. (Assuming they are the same level, abilities, etc.) Theirs just no way that Bumblebee could come close.

I'm in complete agreement with you... my "new rule" would give Prime just 6 more hitpoints than the Bee, and I'm not satisfied with that. But for now, I'm not sure what I want to do. I thought of making the multiplier times 5 but that is too many starting HPs but is a better, more appropriate difference to me. Not sure how I want to handle this

any suggestions? Because I definately agree that the Gargantuan 'bots would generally be both stronger and tough than their smaller brothers. But the smaller 'bots would be quicker... what should I do? Any suggestions?

Right now I'm thinking of adding some stat mods based on vehicle chosen. But, I already gave 42, 38 and 34 point options for ability scores... so I'm wondering on this...

Do you need quick morph to vechicle charge?

Yes and No. Morphing requires a move equivalent action. So yes, you would... but When you get a base attack bonus of +5 you can morph as a free action IF it is combined with a move equivalent action (So, that is the running transform or what ever) SO... you need quick morph to do the charge, but only until level 7 or so when you get the BAB +5 then you no longer need it. (See page 4 toward the end of the Morph trait description)

 

[rangerjohn]

Well then the ansewer is no. You simply can't do it untill +5 b.a.b. +5 b.a.b. is a prerequisite for quick morph. Well that's two down. Apparently sportcars are just for speed. No way you can have a decent weapon in that form. You would have to use all your form feats to puchase gear slots. That's the side effect of your hardness rule. It makes most of the simple firearms worthless.
You would have to be fighting a medium or smaller bot, and hope you get max or near max damage. As far as unarmed, no way your going toe to toe with a larger bot. It's getting so bad, I'm really considering scraping the whole concept.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

any suggestions? Because I definitely agree that the Gargantuan 'bots would generally be both stronger and tough than their smaller brothers. But the smaller 'bots would be quicker... what should I do? Any suggestions?

I don't DM but I thought for sure I saw somewhere rules for making the same creature bigger and what goes where...

As for suggestions, none really I've looked at the spell righteous might but it's not truly helpful other than to say that you get a size bonus.

Right now I'm thinking of adding some stat mods based on vehicle chosen. But, I already gave 42, 38 and 34 point options for ability scores... so I'm wondering on this...

Well as long as your consistent across the boards then anything you do shouldn’t have a profound impact on things.

I know I'm going to draw angry stares from my companions but I'm looking forward to Devastator and I'm hoping he doesn't suck cause the mechanics aren't right.

 

[Kalanyr]

There are rules in the MM for that kind of thing but it will basically end up with bots of size anything but Gargantuan being totally ineffective as warriors. (Sadly the increased HP multiplier will have a similar effect.) I am a bit biased on this though since Bushido is supposed to be a warrior but he's only size Large.

 

[rangerjohn]

I agree. While Firefly isn't supposed to be a great warrior, he isn't supposed to helpless either. Between hardness and to a lesser externt added hps, he is. The best damage he can hope to do is 12 with a automatic blaster pistol in primary form. This means he might do 2 hp to something huge. Any bigger he better run, because he can't affect it at all.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I agree. While Firefly isn't supposed to be a great warrior, he isn't supposed to helpless either. Between hardness and to a lesser externt added hps, he is.

I don't think it's *quite* that bad... If it is a Baster Carbine is only 1 gear point more, so it's a simple single level away.

The best damage he can hope to do is 12 with a automatic blaster pistol in primary form. This means he might do 2 hp to something huge.

Against huge the best he could do is 3. Gargantuan would be 2, Immense is 1 … Granted that’s not a lot of damage but it is the weakest weapon of its caliber, with lots of room for improvement, now something the size of Immense is the size of a passenger jet, and it’s not something we will be seeing often I imagine.

Any bigger he better run, because he can't affect it at all.

Anything bigger than immense and we might as all find out who's the fastest...

 

[rangerjohn]

Do really see someone like Cliff Jumper with a bigger gun than you? That's the chance for a large bot now. Cause I might as well go that route if I go with a carbine, It take two hands to fire without penalty and if all my gear points are going into my weapon anyhow.... I just don't see large bots as viable under this system. Even using your numbers, thats assumming I roll box cars. You know the odds of that? Oh and thats assumming none of these bots take built to last. I guess the main thing is what is the trade off? I'm hard to hit? Someone is more likely to hit my ac that I am to roll max damage. Shesh, could have the best ac in the game and my odds of being hit are more than my doing damage.