Opposed-alignment cleric scrolls

[AuraSeer]

Can an evil cleric use a scroll of a [Good] spell, or vice versa?

The cleric class description only says that they can't "cast spells" of an alignment opposed to his or his deity's. Reading a scroll is not actually casting a spell, it's just activating a magic item. The cleric still has the spell on his class list (even though he can't cast it), and that's really all the scroll requires. So unless I'm missing something, it looks like the scroll should work just fine.

Using some spells could be an alignment violation, or might upset the cleric's deity, but that's a subjective determination for the DM to make. At the moment I'm just wondering if the magic would work.

 

[mikebr99]

Can an evil cleric use a scroll of a [Good] spell, or vice versa?

The cleric class description only says that they can't "cast spells" of an alignment opposed to his or his deity's. Reading a scroll is not actually casting a spell, it's just activating a magic item. The cleric still has the spell on his class list (even though he can't cast it), and that's really all the scroll requires. So unless I'm missing something, it looks like the scroll should work just fine.

Using some spells could be an alignment violation, or might upset the cleric's deity, but that's a subjective determination for the DM to make. At the moment I'm just wondering if the magic would work.

Well, scrolls are spell completion items...

A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

So... I'm saying no. But if the Cleric in question has UMD... then he can.


Mike

 

[werk]

I'm going to agree with Mike, you'd need UMD to use that scroll.

I'd say oppositionally aligned spells aren't even on the cleric's list, since he 'can not cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's."

 

[AuraSeer]

Well, scrolls are spell completion items...

That's my point, they are items. No actual spellcasting is involved. You use a scroll with the Activate A Magic Item standard action, which is completely different than the Cast A Spell standard action. The bit you quoted doesn't reference well-defined game terms, which makes it look to me like flavor text.

 

[AuraSeer]

I'd say oppositionally aligned spells aren't even on the cleric's list, since he 'can not cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's."

Right, he can't cast the spells, but that's all the book says. Unless I'm missing a statement elsewhere, the spells remain on his list. Heck, by the RAW a good cleric could even prepare blasphemy or unholy aura or whatever, because that's not "casting" either!

 

[Hypersmurf]

For what it's worth as comparison, a specialist wizard explicitly cannot use a scroll of a spell from a forbidden school.

-Hyp.

 

[werk]

Right, he can't cast the spells, but that's all the book says. Unless I'm missing a statement elsewhere, the spells remain on his list. Heck, by the RAW a good cleric could even prepare blasphemy or unholy aura or whatever, because that's not "casting" either!

Good luck with that.

 

[mikebr99]

That's my point, they are items. No actual spellcasting is involved. You use a scroll with the Activate A Magic Item standard action, which is completely different than the Cast A Spell standard action.

But the "activate a magic item" action is then broken down into four ways to actually active the item... dmg p. 213.

Spell completion
Spell trigger
Command word
Use activated

And under spell completion... perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting... and provokes an AoO, just like casting the spell does.


Mike

 

[Bad Paper]

I would allow such a use of a scroll, because the spell remains on the cleric's list (unlike Hypersmurf's wizard example, where prohibited spells are removed from the list). Of course, then the cleric's deity likely does not allow the cleric any more spells thereafter...

 

[KarinsDad]

I agree with Mike.

"perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting"

A scroll requires the Cleric to finish casting the spell and since the Cleric cannot cast that spell, he also cannot finish casting that spell.