Optimized and Non-Optimized in the same group.

[ForeverSlayer]

I put the blame for this disparity squarely on the non-optimisers. Clearly they aren't serious enough about the game.

So you have to optimize in order to be serious about the game? Some people like the concept of their characters more than just the numbers. There are some powers that go more with the concept of one's character while not being the best choice due to the numbers.

This is a problem in my opinion because it makes some think that they are only supposed to create characters that are the best which leaves you with the same builds every time you play. That is not what this or any RPG should be all about.

 

[Kzach]

That is not what this or any RPG should be all about.

Then you're playing the game wrong.

 

[malraux]

Then you're playing the game wrong.

found online

"What gets measured gets done, what gets measured and fed back gets done well, what gets rewarded gets repeated."
- John E. Jones

If mechanical optimization gets rewarded by the type of game you play, then its no real surprise that you have lots of optimization.

 

[mudbunny]

This is a problem in my opinion because it makes some think that they are only supposed to create characters that are the best which leaves you with the same builds every time you play. That is not what this or any RPG should be all about.

It all depends on how the group likes to play the game.

(Warning, hyper-exaggeration to make the point in the following paragraph.)

If the group likes to angst over whether their characters are properly emotionally adjusted to the fact that the person who lives in a house across town got a case of the sniffles before they go out to kill the big bad evil guy, then great, that is the best style of play for them.

If, instead, the group is oriented around making sure that the build for each class is at the very highest of possible DPS over the entire 30-level lifespan of the character, then that is the right style of play for them.

To each their own.

 

[Imaro]

It all depends on how the group likes to play the game.

(Warning, hyper-exaggeration to make the point in the following paragraph.)

If the group likes to angst over whether their characters are properly emotionally adjusted to the fact that the person who lives in a house across town got a case of the sniffles before they go out to kill the big bad evil guy, then great, that is the best style of play for them.

If, instead, the group is oriented around making sure that the build for each class is at the very highest of possible DPS over the entire 30-level lifespan of the character, then that is the right style of play for them.

To each their own.

FS actually did state that this was all in his opinion... so I'm kind of confused on your reply to him. Kzach on the other had is stating his opinions like they are facts.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

FS actually did state that this was all in his opinion... so I'm kind of confused on your reply to him. Kzach on the other had is stating his opinions like they are facts.

I thought I detected a certain measure of sarcasm there...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

an elf ranger with bow expertise and started with a 20 dex, weapon focus, a good enchantment on his bow, and some wondurus item support (things that give rerolls or bonus damage)

compaired to a teifling rouge who uses a short sword, who multi into swordmage for the sword bond ability and started with a 16 dex, and who has no feat buffs to attack or damage...


level 14...

(24dex) +7+7(half level)+2(prof)+4(enchant)+2(expertise)
+22 vs AC, and +22 Vs AC
1d10+15 per hit one of them gets +2d8

(20dex) +5+7(half level)+3(prof)+3(enchant)+2(CA)
+20 vs AC
2d6+8+3d8

we will give the target a 30 AC

ranger needs to roll 2 8s or better and has atleast one reroll... if one hits it avrages 30 damage, if both hit it jumps to 50

rouge needs a 10 to hit and avrage on a hit is 28 damage...

now I dont do the whole dpr thing...but 50/59 chance of doing 28, or almost guaranteed 30 with better then 50% chance of doing 50...

and that is not counting +4 armbands, or encounters fireing 3 or more shots...

 

[CancR]

I am curious to know what you party dynamic is in your party class wise. I find that it's easy for optimized striker class to feel out shined by a optimized defender, controller, leader ect. as players often times like to be the one at the table that deal the most damage at the table. In such cases the age old solution of giving out a little xp for supporting the party helps players get the the gist of where the character fits in the whole of helping the party overcome challenges. The trouble I have with our current group is that of 7 players 5 are optimized striker all fighting each other for who does the most damage in the turn, 1 wants to play a thief so he can steal from the party and I can turn people into frogs once a day. Man I love the red box set.

Often times it can be overwhelming a Dm to have the party fight the Challenge and not each other.

---Rusty

 

[Mirtek]

Yep, this is where I've seen problems. When you have an optimized vs. non-optimized in the same role, in the same party. The non-optimizer tends to get overshadowed a bit.

It's like one is Batman and one is Robin... hey Robin's no schmuck against the antagonists... but he ain't Batman either.

The problem is if there's also someone who's Alfred

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's like one is Batman and one is Robin... hey Robin's no schmuck against the antagonists... but he ain't Batman either.

ok, but it depends... when it is non batgod batman and tim or even (shudder) damian... that is fine.

when it is boy hostage and bad ass batman... not so much.

Heck what about spoiler/robin (and damn i am going to miss steph batgirl)


what about when you have batman and superman, and snapper car... how does that work?