Optimizing A Bard

[roguerouge]

Let me put in a nomination for an emphasis on enchantments and illusions. If your DM can think on his feat, they're very powerful and fun schools of magic, well worth improving with Spell Focus feats. If your DM thinks that a player using one spell to allow the party to avoid an entire combat is not fun for him and the other players, then you might as well drop the whole bard concept, 'cause the same thing's going to go for diplomacy and bluff.

 

[taliesin15]

roguerogue's suggestion of picking enchantment (no pun intended) and illusion spells is a pretty good one...as a DM I've seen one Bard PC use Illusion spells in conjunction with one of his Bard songs--pretty effective I would imagine for low to mid level encounters

which brings up another topic--I've never run a high level bard, DM'd one (except for NPC Bards), and I'm curious if people have any thoughts on optimizing Bards for higher levels...it doesn't seem to me that high lvl Bards are going to have much luck in enthralling high level monsters and NPCs (they would usually make their saving throws), so I'm curious on people's thoughts on tactics for running them in higher levels

one thing that comes to mind personally is that many higher level campaigns involve the recovery and/or destruction of a Relic of some sort--I could see where the Bard Knowledge of a higher level Bard could help that...along with Legend Lore of course...

...another thing is that Bards probably know more people in the world due to their skills and general design (the most social of all the classes)...

 

[aboyd]

I don't usually hit high levels, so I'm not sure what a level 20 bard can do well. However, I've seen on other bard optimization threads that the bard's Inspire Courage ability can deliver roughly +1/level -- this includes the feats, spells, and magic items that are appropriate/possible. So you should expect that a bard at level 20 can deliver +20 to the members of the team -- both to hit and to damage. Is that worthwhile at high levels? I don't know. If a fighter class gets +20 and hits 4 times, that's +80 damage a round, just for the fighter. Add that up over all the members of the team, and it's a decent addition, isn't it?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just off the top of my head...aren't there some reserve feats for illusion or enchantment spells? If so, that could be a tasty addition to a bard concentrating in those areas.

And I know what you said about sourcebooks, but if it becomes an option for you now or in a subsequent campaign, consider the DCv1- it has a bunch of "bloodline/heritage" feats available to spontaneous casters based upon having ancestors who were members of magically potent races.

 

[blargney the second]

There's a halfling archer bard in our game, and he's got an ability that I was surprised to find was surprisingly powerful: Dragonfire Inspiration. He was giving us +4d6 damage on every attack at 8th level. The neat thing is that you can still choose to regular inspire courage if the monster is immune to that damage type.
-blarg

 

[Shin Okada]

For melee bard, how about taking Devoted Performer and be a Bard/Paladin? This build needs an alignment change and thus you must consult to your DM. But will be very interesting and will give you better than descend BAB and very good saves.

 

[roguerouge]

There are core CG paladins, called Paladins of Freedom: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofFreedomClassFeatures

 

[Shin Okada]

Interesting. But IMHO Bard/Paladin with Devoted Performer feat is better, as the character can add both class levels for determining Bard Songs per day and Smite Evil damage bonus. And the character can freely multiclass between Bard and Paladin thereafter. Also, Immune to Fear is often more useful than Immune to Compulsion.

By the way, that variant Paladin is a standard class but not core. I do not know which supplement book contains that variant rule.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

By the way, that variant Paladin is a standard class but not core. I do not know which supplement book contains that variant rule.

Unearthed Arcana


For high level Bards, I'm not sure what th most devastating thing to do is. They should have enough UMD to use almost any magic item they find, which is darned handy. Unless the DM "does something" about Diplomacy, it's just as great for ending combats as it was at level 3. The fascinate bardic music has a DC of (perform check), and thus never stops being potent, if not actually becoming more potent.

 

[aboyd]

Unless the DM "does something" about Diplomacy, it's just as great for ending combats as it was at level 3.

Meaning, not great at all?

Changing others’ attitudes with Diplomacy generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase. A rushed Diplomacy check can be made as a full-round action, but you take a -10 penalty on the check.

Please explain how you've turned this into a great option for ending combat. I would like to try it.