Optimizing a two person party

[Blue]

[MENTION=59082]Mercurius[/MENTION] had an thought provoking post about going through a published dungeon crawl with a small party, possibly a two person group.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655479-quot-Solo-crawling-quot-Dungeon-of-the-Mad-Mage

That got me to thinking. We often discuss optimization of a single character, but how about a pair of characters (only!) that need to complement each other.

Say we needed to handle:

• RP and social skills
• Knowledge skills
• Exploration and discovery
• Combat where usually the foes have a lot more actions then us
• Healing/recovery between challengesFind/remove traps, open locks, find hidden things

(Assume standard type adventures, not the DM tailoring specifically to two characters - though that does mean the might advance faster so be a bit in level above where a 4-5 character party would be.)

Can you suggest character pairs that will work at (around) 6th, 12th and 16th, providing a high degree of synergy as well as covering the needed tasks? It's okay if they are a bit weak on one or two if they carry their weight well in the others.

(Let's keep it to published Wizards books only - no UA, 3rd party, or homebrew.)

 

[FrogReaver]

[MENTION=59082]Mercurius[/MENTION] had an thought provoking post about going through a published dungeon crawl with a small party, possibly a two person group.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?655479-quot-Solo-crawling-quot-Dungeon-of-the-Mad-Mage

That got me to thinking. We often discuss optimization of a single character, but how about a pair of characters (only!) that need to complement each other.

Say we needed to handle:

• RP and social skills
• Knowledge skills
• Exploration and discovery
• Combat where usually the foes have a lot more actions then us
• Healing/recovery between challengesFind/remove traps, open locks, find hidden things

(Assume standard type adventures, not the DM tailoring specifically to two characters - though that does mean the might advance faster so be a bit in level above where a 4-5 character party would be.)

Can you suggest character pairs that will work at (around) 6th, 12th and 16th, providing a high degree of synergy as well as covering the needed tasks? It's okay if they are a bit weak on one or two if they carry their weight well in the others.

(Let's keep it to published Wizards books only - no UA, 3rd party, or homebrew.)

If the DM don't tailor combat to 2 person parties I don't think the party will make it past level 1. Encounters at level 1 that are for 4-5 players will likely decimate nearly any 2 person party. The 2 person party will also have to rest after nearly every encounter.

To get through the level 1 in this game there's only a few options that I recommend for combat.
Barbarian
Anything with magic missile
Anything that works with a longbow (especially classes with good movement speed)

Crossbow expertise on a ranger or fighter setup also works great.

Dex and Stealth and surprise are amazing options.

By the way I have played in 2 person campaigns before.

At some point you hopefully will be "strong enough" for combat and can take a few level dips to enhance your out of combat abilities.

Anyways, your biggest challenge for the first bit of the game is going to be just surviving combat.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I would go with a Valor Bard and a Circle of the Shepard Druid. The Valor Bard is the ultimate swiss army knife, able to do everything adequately. The Circle of the Shepard Druid's beefed-up Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings adds additional "party members" to help take the melee heat off the Valor Bard in combat, wilderness expertise and general magical support. Both characters should have reasonable stealth abilities and Pass Without Trace will allow the duo to sneak around opponents who would be too challenging for a two-person party. Both can potentially heal if necessary.

 

[Blue]

If the DM don't tailor combat to 2 person parties I don't think the party will make it past level 1. Encounters at level 1 that are for 4-5 players will likely decimate nearly any 2 person party. The 2 person party will also have to rest after nearly every encounter.
...
Anyways, your biggest challenge for the first bit of the game is going to be just surviving combat.

I completely agree with what you say. 1st level is fantasy Vietnam, and with fewer PCs against challenges meant for 4-5 characters it would be brutal.

I was avoiding the kill-1st-level-characters by asking for the pair that would be viable at certain levels - 6th, 12th, 16th. 6th is enough that you can have the level 5 power bump and a level of something else (or the next class features, like paladin aura), or subclasses in two classes. 12th is similar in having the level 11 power bump or good headway into multiclassing. 16th was just that it doesn't peter out and not get thru to the last tier.

 

[Blue]

I would go with a Valor Bard and a Circle of the Shepard Druid. The Valor Bard is the ultimate swiss army knife, able to do everything adequately. The Circle of the Shepard Druid's beefed-up Conjure Animals and Conjure Woodland Beings adds additional "party members" to help take the melee heat off the Valor Bard in combat, wilderness expertise and general magical support. Both characters should have reasonable stealth abilities and Pass Without Trace will allow the duo to sneak around opponents who would be too challenging for a two-person party. Both can potentially heal if necessary.

I like leveraging the smaller party size to be able to have a good stealth for everyone. That will definitely help but it's harder to do with a party of 5.

And hitting on summons to provide additional meatshields and actions is a great way to buff up a party missing those exact things. That gets around neither of the characters being "tanky".

Does the summons keep filling this role all the way up to 16th? I haven't really looked at high level druid summons.

The party seems to be light on ranged output - how would it handle an encounter of pure fliers at 12th?

 

[CTurbo]

Bard + Druid is the most obvious answer IMO


I think a Chain Pact Warlock + Beastmaster Ranger would make a good duo for obvious reasons.


I think a Cleric + Paladin would be an awesome duo even if both were sporting full Plate.


So what would be the most challenging duo to play? How about a Barbarian + Monk? Would a Wizard + Sorcerer duo survive the first few levels? Of course they would be an epic pair in the upper levels.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Two sneaks/skirmishers can work really well, too. BM Ranger is tough, because the pet sucks in combat after a certain level, but magic items can help, and a GM that is willing to fudge a little.

Otherwise, any one of a rogue, a gloomstalker Ranger, shadow monk, with a dex Paladin or a valor or swords Bard should work.

 

[Blue]

Bard + Druid is the most obvious answer IMO


I think a Chain Pact Warlock + Beastmaster Ranger would make a good duo for obvious reasons.


I think a Cleric + Paladin would be an awesome duo even if both were sporting full Plate.


So what would be the most challenging duo to play? How about a Barbarian + Monk? Would a Wizard + Sorcerer duo survive the first few levels? Of course they would be an epic pair in the upper levels.

With Druid, were you picturing Moon for HPs, Shepard for summons, or is there even more to the druid in terms of filling multiple roles I'm missing?

 

[CTurbo]

With Druid, were you picturing Moon for HPs, Shepard for summons, or is there even more to the druid in terms of filling multiple roles I'm missing?

Valor + Moon would be best probably.

Lore + Land would be the ultimate utility pair, but would possibly struggle if/when the time comes where they had to deal damage.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I like leveraging the smaller party size to be able to have a good stealth for everyone. That will definitely help but it's harder to do with a party of 5.

And hitting on summons to provide additional meatshields and actions is a great way to buff up a party missing those exact things. That gets around neither of the characters being "tanky".

Does the summons keep filling this role all the way up to 16th? I haven't really looked at high level druid summons.

The party seems to be light on ranged output - how would it handle an encounter of pure fliers at 12th?

Unfortunately I am doubtful the summons keep place all the way to 16th (I have only played a druid to 11). That said, with the buffs they get from the Circle of the Shepard subclass maybe they can. Use conjure fey and bust out the annis hag (Volo's Guide) for a tank. A bheur hag or korred (both from Volo's Guide, uses a 7th level slot) for magical support. At any rate, by that time your druid is dropping fire storm, reverse gravity, sunburst, etc.

Don't forget that a valor bard is proficient with martial weapons (can use a longbow) and starting at 6th level can make multiple attacks. It isn't as good as having an arcane archer or sorlock ranged attacker but in a two person party we have to make do. Also, conjure animals can be used to bring in giant eagles. Conjure fey brings in a bheur hag -- a flier with ranged attacks. If you have a minute of prep time an air elemental can be summoned with conjure elemental.

Thanks for the XP!