D&D 5E Options: Can we build them?

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Ultimately, I've enjoyed my experiences with the D&D Next playtest rules, which I've primarily seen as a DM of D&D Encounters. Terribly important to me was that combat could take place at speed, which it did. I was often able to have 4-5 battles in a single 2-hour session, and some of the battles it handled worked as big, set-piece battles as well. So, that's all good.

My chief concern at this point is about additional options for the game, and - in particular - those created by fans and 3rd-party publishers. 3rd Edition allowed, through the OGL, a wealth of these options to surface. Not all were good, but there were enough to provide possibilities for those dissatisfied with what was in the actual rulebook. The caveat here is that you had to like the basic structure of 3E. 4E, through its GSL and, perhaps to a greater extent, the Character Builder, restricted the ability of people to create additional options. So, I'm hoping that Next cleaves more to 3E freedom than 4E freedom when it comes to other publishers.

Of course, this presumes that one can build on the basic system. I think this is likely. In fact, with the basic system being simpler, there's the possibility of a greater range of additional options. We shall see. That the potential of these options exists as a core design feature of the system, I'm quite hopeful.

Can you see someone designing a 4E-style class and plugging it into the Next system? Can you see the potential for simpler spellcasters or more complex warriors?

One of my greatest regrets with the 4E line is that it took too long to break away from the strict AEDU structure, and, when it did, it didn't really go far enough. If the underlying mathematics of the system is understood, then I believe that you can have a great range of character options on top of that, approaching the problem of "what makes a fun character" in different ways. I saw the potential for it in 4E, I don't believe Next will be any different.

However, all of this would be greatly helped if 3rd party publishers could contribute to the exploration of the D&D Next design space.

What do you feel about this matter?

Cheers!
 

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1of3

Explorer
So, what is a 4e style class? Is it about picking powers? Is it about powers with different cooldowns? Is it about complex action economy? Is it about status effects and forced movements?
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
Once we know the monster math of the 5e final version it should be pretty easy to dial it to a 4e level and then pretty much run with 4e classes and powers.

I'd probably take the opportunity to nuke a lot of the reactions, interrupts, and minor attacks in the process.

The main difference for tactical play is to dial combat length from 2-4 rounds to 4-8 rounds to allow time for tactics.

If it's just about powers then don't dial up the hit points so high.
 

Thyrwyn

Explorer
I do think the Character Builder was the bane of 4e expansion by 3rd parties. The output was so user friendly, that it made it hard to ignore.

I am looking forward to playing 5e. It looks flexible enough and streamlined enough to be easily expanded. I hope the lawyers make it easy for 3rd party additions. Once we get a better look at the character generation/advancement components, I will begin my home-brew conversion/addition process.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
So, what is a 4e style class? Is it about picking powers? Is it about powers with different cooldowns? Is it about complex action economy? Is it about status effects and forced movements?

Any or all of the above! (Well, with respect to options, it is).

The basics of a traditional 4E class to my mind is the strict AEDU structure.
 

One can say that Next classes look a lot like 3E classes in the way they are designed, and 3E had Bo9S. I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of thing in Next.

In fact, if someone wanted to play a Bo9S class in my game now, with the obvious and necessary changes, I'd be inclined to allow it, if just for the opportunity to see if the system manages to handle it. I would do the same for a SW Saga or 4E Class, which I think share that same DNA.

Maybe I'd be crazy for allowing it, but I love weird experiences that can break perfectly good games in half... :)
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
One can say that Next classes look a lot like 3E classes in the way they are designed, and 3E had Bo9S. I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to replicate that kind of thing in Next.

In fact, if someone wanted to play a Bo9S class in my game now, with the obvious and necessary changes, I'd be inclined to allow it, if just for the opportunity to see if the system manages to handle it. I would do the same for a SW Saga or 4E Class, which I think share that same DNA.

Maybe I'd be crazy for allowing it, but I love weird experiences that can break perfectly good games in half... :)

I played with both Bo9S and Magic of Incarnum in the late days of 3E - loved them both.

Cheers!
 

tuxgeo

Adventurer
So, what is a 4e style class? Is it . . .

That's only part of the question. If we ask "what is a 4e style character?" then we get closer to the heart of the matter.

Think 18 feats over a career. Think limited healing surges that influence the length of the work day. Think "action points" that allow anybody at all to double up in a selected turn once in a while. Think "Healing Word" and "Inspiring Word" and "Majestic Word" that allow the recipient to uncork the good stuff right when he or she needs it.

Think curses for warlocks, oaths of enmity for avengers, marking for fighters, and quarries for rangers: different classes had drastically different mechanics and effects.
 

GX.Sigma

Adventurer
That's only part of the question. If we ask "what is a 4e style character?" then we get closer to the heart of the matter.

Think 18 feats over a career. Think limited healing surges that influence the length of the work day. Think "action points" that allow anybody at all to double up in a selected turn once in a while. Think "Healing Word" and "Inspiring Word" and "Majestic Word" that allow the recipient to uncork the good stuff right when he or she needs it.

Think curses for warlocks, oaths of enmity for avengers, marking for fighters, and quarries for rangers: different classes had drastically different mechanics and effects.
Interesting how all of that is already in D&D Next in some form (except for the warlock thing, since there's no warlocks yet). It's really just a matter of degrees.

(Also interesting how you mention "healing word and inspiring word and majestic word" and then say "different classes had drastically different mechanics.")
 

tuxgeo

Adventurer
So . . . ?

I didn't say all of them were; merely that differences did exist: the classes had some mechanics that were drastically different from those of other classes. I trust you didn't think you were disagreeing with me there.
 

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