Orcs preview

[Scribble]

I think I am going to wait on revising the rules until after I;ve actually seen them all...

I mean what do we really know about the effects of misses so far? So far I haven't seen any powers that still cause damage after a miss... they just grant neat effects... (admitedly I haven't seen a ton of them.)

 

[Piratecat]

Yeah, I'm making zero house rules for the first 9-game campaign I'm running. I want to try it extensively before changing it.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

How often is a 9th level wizard going to miss hitting a 9th level Orc Warrior Minion? Not to often by predictions.

A typical 9th level wizard has:
+4 to attack from being 9th level
+5 modifier due to an intelligence of 20
+2 attack modifier by virtue of using a +2 implement.

And throw on some miscellaneous +2 bonus from something else like feats, other magic items or an ally's power that's adding bonuses.

You got a bunch of +13 attack rolls, against a bunch of reflex defenses of 16. A 9th level wizard will only miss on a 2 or lower, or with a +11 attack a 4 or lower if they didn't get that miscellaneous +2 bonus.

 

[Mort_Q]

Minions are supposed to save me effort. I really don't want to bother with having to describe something that binary as anything other than "splat" and "nosplat." I'll save my verbosity for the solo monster at the end, kthnx.

Opinions are like that. I don't know how your games work, but I can't see the descriptions actually changing at all in mine. There's just less math.

 

[Iron Sky]

I don't see that as the real problem. I see the real problem being that players aren't given the sense of power that they should have against minions.

The players aren't missing anything if they don't have an the knowledge and expectation that a) These are minions, and b) Minions should die even when I miss them.

I guess by what you've said, your vision of minions = they should die if they take any damage.

WotC's vision of minions = they should die if they take any hit.

Personally, I'll just describe minions that survived a damage-on-miss attack just like I'd describe any other monster that survived it:

PC: "Ok, my fireball hit this big one, missed these two little guys, and hit these three little guys."
DM: "The big one charges out of the flames with a roar, smoldering and bloodied but still standing. Three of the smaller ones lie charred to a crisp on the floor while the other two pull themselves up, clothing blackened and smoking, and charge after the big one."

 

[EonEdge]

I like the new orcs, as I have always liked orcs.

I am especially happy that they're not level 1. I have never used orcs at level 1(that where my favorite humanoid monsters the kolbold belong) and I never liked having to apply class levels to orcs to make them usable when I wanted to use them(levels 5-8). Couple that with my inability to keep my premade leveled orcs some place where i could find them, and orcs became a chore, which is sad for my second favorite monster.

Now the only real question is how to make my recurring orc npc.

 

[keterys]

Doesn't work. Suppose the PC blows there big daily power to try to kill the horde of 12 minions. They miss.

12 Times? I mean, that's a lot of misses.

At any rate, suppose the PC blows their big daily power to really hurt the big bad, but misses and doesn't do enough damage to get through their resistance.

... ,but the big bad uses a power that interposes a creature (ally or enemy) as a target.

Etc.

I think you've officially moved into 'Thinking too hard' land.

 

[Scribble]

My take on the minion no damage from a miss is this:

Minions are exactly what their name implies... minions. They're the doofus mindless nameless psychos that run at the hero and get to yell out a one liner (like DIE HUMAN! or COBRA!!!!) before they get carved up by the heros... They die when you hit them. They're designed to be used by evil overloards to get in your way and suck up your attacks while he/she does something else. Just like in every action movie. They're not really designed to be any sort of challenge. Thats the job of the cobra comander.

As such I suspect that the AC vrs your attack is going to be so low that chances are you will kill them whever you attack them. If you miss, it's really a miss. a whiff. You slipped on blood or a banana peel, or the minion happened to find a naturally occuring wormhole that only exists for the precise moment of your shot.

The leaders? The real challenge... They're different. When you miss them, you probably aren't missing them completely. You're attack is being knocked aside, or reflected off their armor. As such you're connecting in some way with them and wearing them down. You're showing them you're not just another commoner- You're a hero.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, I'm making zero house rules for the first 9-game campaign I'm running. I want to try it extensively before changing it.

Oh, and agreed. The big question is how many extra classes, feats, paths, magic items, I add before I have a good grip on the balance of things.

 

[pawsplay]

12 Times? I mean, that's a lot of misses.

At any rate, suppose the PC blows their big daily power to really hurt the big bad, but misses and doesn't do enough damage to get through their resistance.

... ,but the big bad uses a power that interposes a creature (ally or enemy) as a target.

Etc.

I think you've officially moved into 'Thinking too hard' land.

What if the monster party is lower level, and the partial damage on a miss kills the boss but not the minions? Ha!