[Oriental Adventures] The anti-undead spell that goes phbbbbt

[Piratecat]

Anyone know if there is errata out on the spell Ancestral Vengeance? It's a searing light equivalent with more flavor (an ancestor shows up to whack your enemy), and specifically does more damage against undead. Unfortunately, it affects only creatures and has a fortitude save for half - which means that the creatures that it does the most damage to are immune to it!

Other than house ruling the save to a will or reflex save, any advice?

 

[the Jester]

Anyone know if there is errata out on the spell Ancestral Vengeance? It's a searing light equivalent with more flavor (an ancestor shows up to whack your enemy), and specifically does more damage against undead. Unfortunately, it affects only creatures and has a fortitude save for half - which means that the creatures that it does the most damage to are immune to it!

Other than house ruling the save to a will or reflex save, any advice?

I think this falls under the category of "Fort-save effects that undead still have to save against"... I mean, there are a few others iirc (though a quick look in the PH didn't turn any up, so I may be wrong... can't remember which spell I'd noticed like this.)

Anyhoo, I generally rule that any spell that specifically mentions its effects on undead is an exception to the general rule about Fort saves. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Blood Jester]

I think this falls under the category of "Fort-save effects that undead still have to save against"... I mean, there are a few others iirc...

Disintegrate for one.

 

[Piratecat]

Nuh-uh, Blood Jester. Disintegrate specifically affects an object. That's why it works against undead.

Jester, not to devolve into a rules design discussion, but I'm not sure any of those actually exist - that aren't rules mistakes, that is.

 

[Blood Jester]

Nuh-uh, Blood Jester. Disintegrate specifically affects an object. That's why it works against undead...

?!?

SRD say "A thin, green ray springs from the character's pointing finger, causing the creature or object it strikes to glow and vanish, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust."

Is this different from the book?

 

[Blood Jester]

Ah, you meant it works since "object" is specified. Does not the same argument hold true if "undead" is specified?

 

[Benben]

Jester,

It's not that a person can't target undead with disintegrate it's just that undead are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save, unless it effects objects too.

 

[AuraSeer]

No. Undead are immune to all effects that allow a Fortitude save, unless the effect works on objects or is harmless.

Ancestral vengeance allows a Fortitude save, is not harmless, and does not work on objects. Therefore, as written it does nothing to undead.

 

[drnuncheon]

Unless you decide that the specific spell overrides the general rule, and just say 'it works on undead'. I'd say that's your best bet, really.

 

[Piratecat]

Ancestral vengeance allows a Fortitude save, is not harmless, and does not work on objects. Therefore, as written it does nothing to undead.

Except iit explicitly does 1d6/lvl to undead. Bad WotC designers! No cookie!

I'm changing it to a will save to simulate the hot spirit-on-spirit combat, and pretending that this little rules snafu never even surfaced. Thanks, guys!