[OT] Ben Stein and Evercrack

[Fast Learner]

If members of a society don't observe each other, make judgements, and discuss their conclusions, how are the society's morals formed? How do you know what's healthy behavior for the society if you don't examine the actions of others and attempt to come to consensus?

A society cannot remain cohesive without some shared morals. Yes, we go way overboard sometimes (Jerry Springer is a perfect example), but there does have to be an element of judgement of the action of others to make a society work.

Not all morals can or should be codified as laws, especially about topics where no real consensus has been reached (such as most of childrearing). That leaves us with observing and judging each other. Yeah, it's messy, but it's what we've got.

We would collapse in chaos without some amount of sticking our noses in "other people's business."

 

[Apok]

If members of a society don't observe each other, make judgements, and discuss their conclusions, how are the society's morals formed? How do you know what's healthy behavior for the society if you don't examine the actions of others and attempt to come to consensus?

*snipped for the sake of brevity*

We would collapse in chaos without some amount of sticking our noses in "other people's business."

Without going into a major spiel about the rights of society v. the rights of the individual, I think you do have a valid point.

However, the question is this; where do you draw the line? When does being a Good Neighbor turn into being Big Brother (and I'm using the negative connotation of that term)?

It's a tricky issue to deal with and I really don't think that the human race has sufficiently evolved to deal with it in a meaningful way. Call me a pessimist, but we're a long way off from the time when humanity can get together as a group and reach a consensus about what is Right and Wrong (the clearly defined moral code of society you mentioned). We need to do alot of growing up first and that means caring about the welfare of people outside our social, economical, religious, and national circles. Not an easy thing to do by any stretch of the imagination.

Note, that when I use the word 'we,' I am referring to every human being on this planet, not just a few select groups/nationalities.

 

[Mirth]

I pretty much gave up on listening to anything Ben Stein had to say after I read an article in Gear magazine that he had written defending George W. Bush as a "genius." Yeah, right. (I don't remember the issue number - I read it on a newsstand - but it had Craig Kilborn on the cover, if anyone wants to read that "crap" article.)

You have to wonder about a guy like Stein who has made a career out of being a boring doofus. Is he really a boring doofus? I suspect the answer is yes. And was his parenting choice in this matter wrong? I would whole-heartedly say yes. Nothing says love and compassion like the words, "Get out of my house and go live with some strangers."

 

[John Smallberries]

Last time I checked, Salon , Vote.com , and Free Republic (to name only a few) are set up for you to voice your political opinions.

Please take them there and spare us.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

Last time I checked, Salon , Vote.com , and Free Republic (to name only a few) are set up for you to voice your political opinions.

Please take them there and spare us.

Thank you O Grand High Poobah and Master of all that is EnWorld!! I seem to have missed the 'Moderator' sign by your name......could be i was so impressed by your post count of 24 that I overlooked it........


But, we here on the boards remain, as always, your devoted slaves, and will do as you order with grave alacrity.........








NOT!!

 

[John Smallberries]

Thank you O Grand High Poobah and Master of all that is EnWorld!! I seem to have missed the 'Moderator' sign by your name......could be i was so impressed by your post count of 24 that I overlooked it........

This is an interesting thread, and one that I would like to see continue.

BUT, if people use it as a platform for their political debates, it WILL be closed down. This has been happening with increasing frequency lately, and I'd like to help prevent it if I could.

I'm not ordering anyone to take their politics elsewhere, I'm merely suggesting that they abide by the established rules of this board before yet another thread goes down in flames.

Or is that wrong?

ps. Nobody cares about post count.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

This is an interesting thread, and one that I would like to see continue.

BUT, if people use it as a platform for their political debates, it WILL be closed down. This has been happening with increasing frequency lately, and I'd like to help prevent it if I could.

I'm not ordering anyone to take their politics elsewhere, I'm merely suggesting that they abide by the established rules of this board before yet another thread goes down in flames.

Or is that wrong?

ps. Nobody cares about post count.

Ah. That was much better than your pretentious tone of before. Thank you.

 

[herald]

I don't see how you can keep politics out of the conversation. Ben Stein is a political figure. The man wrote speeches for Nixon. He is a spin doctor.

As far as I am concerned I do think that it gives some kind of back ground into his thinking. This is an individual who has made a career in trying to sway public opinion, usually to the detriment of someone or something.

Just because he appeared in a Movie or TV show is going to change what he is or what he has done. He got famous because he was a political figure, not because he could drone on in monotone, anyone could have done that.

At best if you want to keep politics out of it you can say this is a man adept at manipulating the public, and manipulating facts and you know that he holds back some of the truth. This is irrguardless of the fact of who or what he did this for, I would no sooner trust James Carvel on this same subject either.

 

[WizarDru]

I don't see how you can keep politics out of the conversation. Ben Stein is a political figure. The man wrote speeches for Nixon. He is a spin doctor.

At best if you want to keep politics out of it you can say this is a man adept at manipulating the public, and manipulating facts and you know that he holds back some of the truth. This is irrguardless of the fact of who or what he did this for, I would no sooner trust James Carvel on this same subject either.

That's James Carville, actually. As for Stein, he's also been a trial lawyer, an author and written screenplays in Hollywood. It's been over thirty years since he wrote anything for Nixon, when he was still in law school. I'd hardly consider him to a powerful political figure, by any measure. He's a character actor with a storied history, sure...but some sort of political mastermind? I don't think so. You seem to have judged him pretty quickly based on very little actual knowledge of him; though you may well have given it more thought than that, it doesn't come across that way.

I don't agree with many of Stein's views politically....but he's hardly unique in that regard. I don't with agree with millions of my fellow citizens on a long list of issues. I don't agree with Carville, either.

 

[Fast Learner]

Without going into a major spiel about the rights of society v. the rights of the individual, I think you do have a valid point.

However, the question is this; where do you draw the line? When does being a Good Neighbor turn into being Big Brother (and I'm using the negative connotation of that term)?

***Snip additional good stuff***

I agree with you, especially that there are a variety of fine lines here between protecting society and protecting privacy.

However, just because we (as a people) are too immature to do a great job of defining that line, we're all we've got, so we have to move forward and keep trying anyway.