[OT] Good taste, bad taste? Take a look at this promotional campaign...

Psion said:


Are you joking? Using a mythological creature's name as a handle is supposed to be as bad as creating a damning track under false pretenses that has the very real potential to make life more difficult for young gamers and otherwise cast gaming in a bad light?

No, I wasn't. I was genuinely not sure. Since I haven't heard from Oni, I'm still not sure. But Psion, I'm not trying to fight with anyone. As I said upthread, I didn't find the website and tract offensive, nor did I find it funny. I wasn't suggesting that Oni's name was 'bad', and I didn't suggest that the original website was 'bad'. I just couldn't tell if Oni wanted to be taken seriously or not. I think the only value judgement I've passed on anyone in this thread was on Jack Chick and by extension, people who agree with him. I'm sorry if I offended you, although I'm not sure how my question did.
 

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I have to admit that, were it not for all the people here on this thread, I never would have known this was even a joke.

I mean, the demonic-looking pastor did look a little satan-ish, but seriously, the whole comic was not that far-removed from the Jack Chick crap.

The references to the Bible were just slightly more ludicrous and less relevant than Jack Chick's, but I still think the overlying theme was the same.

As a Christian, I'm not terrifically offended by this (probably because I know it's a joke/ad campaign), but I really don't see how it's going to help sell their product in any way. Either way, I think (if anything) the "ad" convinces me that said game is indeed a little too anti-Christian for any real Christian. Role-playing demons... yeah, sounds like a blast... :rolleyes:

Overall, if they need to resort to this level to sell a game, then I'd bet the game itself is pretty worthless. Hopefully they kept the rules nice and simple, because IMO an ad campaign like this is not going to attract large numbers of intelligent gamers. ;) I can see a lot of bad-boy wanna-be's signing up for this one.
 


Wormwood said:

They *desperately* want attention, any attention. Why else should they bother to stick pins in everyone's favorite bogeyman, Jack Chick and the (booga booga) evil evangelicals?

If you want to be offended, that's your business. My advice is to reject the knee-jerk urge to feed into their passive-aggressive marketing. Ignore them and they will most assuredly go away.

This is exactly true. Last year (or maybe early this year), Dr. Laura and a few other conservative talk show host types got into a big stink over a book that was published by the University of Minnesota Press. The book _was_ pretty disgusting from what I've heard about it (even if you only include reports from less biased sources). Just over the weekend there was an article in our local paper about how many university presses are losing money (living in a college town, I guess that is a story of local interest). The article said that only a handful of university press publishers made money last year (or are making money this year). Among them...you guessed it...was University of Minnesota Press. The reason for their success was listed primarily as the book in question. Controversy sells.

There are some things in life that are worth responding to. But when the thing you are responding to is an obvious attempt to get attention, you're best off just ignoring it.
 

As a religious person who did not know before seeing it that it was a joke, I was greatly offended.

The White Wolf people are practicing the same bigotry against religious people that Jack Chick practices against them.

VERY, VERY, poor taste.
 


A rant about bigotry and religion

Poor taste or not, this 'toon is actually pretty clever. It pretty much follows the Jack Chick comic's storyline right down the line, except where Jack only implies certain things about RPGs, here they make it blatantly obvious.

Case in point: the sultry older woman/"pagan" GM in Chick's comic implies through her actions (and the slinky way she's drawn) that she's a servant of the devil, seducing the teenage girl into a life of drugs, bisexual sex and devil worship. In this comic, with deadpan delivery, she flat out says "yes indeedy, I worship demons, have some drugs and come on over next week for an orgy or two." This matter of fact tone exposes how silly Chick's claims really are.

Now I realize that some Christian Gamers are offended by this cartoon. Christianity isn't what's being satirized here. The cowardly, selfish and bigoted scapegoating perpetrated by people like Jack Chick is. Mr. Chick is a hypocrite, who writes comics featuring lovingly detailed vignettes of debauchery, theft and drug use. You can tell just by looking at how much energy and effort has gone into drawing these things, that Jack Chick is getting off on making them, because deep down, he's a pretty sinful person. Like most people who are self-righteous bigots, he foists his own moral failings off on a target group (preferably a socially isolated minority group--gamers, homosexuals, blacks, jews, feminists etc), which he scapegoats. Then he justifies this immoral behavior by clothing himself in the Robes of the Apostles, as if misquoting the bible or going to church regularly automatically makes him "saved" or proves his actions are anything but evil, absolving him of responsibility for being a grade-A jerk.

Most Christians are good people. The problem is that bigots like Chick are moral cowards. They handle stress by scapegoating and hurting others, then don't have the guts to deal with feeling guilty about it afterwards. Heck, they can't even admit that they *are* hurting others. So they lie to themselves about it their whole lives. Sadly, a common way bigots "make believe" they are moral people is to "take the moral high ground" by joining a religion and becoming a fanatic. That way they can persecute others and tell themselves afterward "what I did was moral because I did it for Christ/Buddha/Vishnu/God/etc)." So they can be bigots, scapegoat others, then pat themselves on the back because they go to church and can quote the bible.

99.9% of Christians are good, decent people. Unfortunately, it's that 0.1% of bigoted jerks who hide amongst you that give the rest of you a bad name. The reason Christians are mistrusted by a lot of gamers is that 20 years ago, the bigoted 0.1% managed to trick a lot of the good, decent people to persecute D&D for a short time.

I know from experience. I lost my best friend because his mom, an otherwise good person, believed Pat Robertson when he waved a PHB on TV and said it was a real book of magic spells (I kid you not)! She was a devout (and slightly ignorant) person, who couldn't conceive that Roberston was a charlatan, taking a cheap shot at D&D to trick people into calling in donations. She forbade her son from seeing me, as I was instantly deemed a "bad influence"--I was a cub scout and straight A student who never got into trouble. I don't blame her to this day, just the jerks who manipulated her faith to make a quick buck.

So don't take this White Wolf tract as an attack on Christianity. It's an attack on bigotry, and the small percentage of self-righteous bigots that hide among Christians and hope to fool you into helping justify their acts of cruelty and cowardice. Criticizing these jerks isn't going against Chrisitianity--it might even help devout Christians step back for a second and weed out the jerks--or at least make it harder for them to hide in the back of the congregation and wussily burn books/CDs/gamers/gays/jews/innocents/pagans/feminists/muppets/performance artists/beatle's records/whatever's handy ... at the stake.

Just my (controversial) 2 cents worth.


P.S.: 10 bucks says that "Father Ramos" is a demon whose congregational church is part of the official game setting...
 


I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They may be bigots, but they're entitled to their opinions. And when their opinions are drastic (even if they're reasoned out fairly well), they're going to get flack from anybody who doesn't think like they do -- especially if the consider their trian of thought as the only right one.

I agree with the above, and also had very little idea what kind of joke this was supposed to be -- I could mistake it as a Chick Tract myself, honestly, though I haven't read a whole lot of 'em. :)

I fail to see how any reasonable Christian can be offended by this, really...though maybe I'm just dense. It mocks the group that already mocks pretty much everyone other than itself, so I fail to see how anyone that would read it would be insulted by it.

And Demon? It's just shaping up to be Vampire with horns. :)
 

This isn't just a website, they printed a bunch of these things and distributed them at GenCon, with no mention of White Wolf's affiliation anywhere particularly noticeable. It's that level of deception that bothers me.... on the other hand if it sells their books that might be proof that they really ARE in league with the devil.... paricularly if Giselle Bundchen moves to Stone Mountain and becomes a White Wolf Groupie.....
 

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