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[OT] I'm Going To Enlist In The Navy

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bolen said:
I was waiting till you turned this into a political debate.

", didn't think it was so fun when we were using those skills in Desert Storm and Panama and various other places were people were actually trying to kill us just because we have more freedom than they do, or we believe in God, or we treat woman like equals, or whatever other B.S. reason they have for shooting one of us down. "


I will not even touch this.
It ain't political: it's true. To them we are the "Great Western Devil" - their words, not mine. Telling the truth isn't political, and besides - I'm proud to be an American. If you're not - that's something you need to deal with. God Bless America and all of our Allies, and woe to our foes. I pray for the safe return of each and every one of our soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Granted I think you're a lot smarter if you go the airmen route...
 

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As I mentioned before, I am in the Air Force and I want to echo a bit of what Paladin said as to the USAF being "easier". Yes our basic training isn't as intense, but then we're not all riflemen first. Having been around for just over 50 years, the USAF is not bogged down with decades of tradition (some of the Navy stuff makes NO sense to me). We have the reputation of being a more "techie" service than the others as well.

It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw. First panel - Army soldier sitting in a foxhole at night saying "this sucks!" Second panel - Marine in a foxhole at night while it's raining saying "this sucks!" Third panel - Sailor looking out a porthole at miles and miles of empty ocean saying "this sucks!" Last panel - Airman in his air conditioned dorm holding a remote control saying "no cable? This sucks!"

Are the services different? You bet. Do they have their niches of specialty? Oh yes. Is one any better than the other? Not really. Regardless of the color of your uniform, we all serve with the same purpose, to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. So Azure Trance, whatever choice you make or even if you decide not to join, best of luck to you. To all the other military members here on EN World, I raise my glass to you.
 

Paladin said:
Granted I think you're a lot smarter if you go the airmen route...

Tell that to the airmen who died in the Khobar towers bombing. Safety is an awfully difficult thing to define relative to military service in today's world -- you can never predict where you'll end up.

There are a lots of factors Azure Trance needs to consider in choosing service -- and since we don't really know what weights Azure Trance would assign to those factors, so its hardly fair to point to one service as a whole over another until you can match a specific set of needs to the features of that service.

Consider things like:

- Quality of life
- Type of MOS
- Job guarantees
- Convertability of training
- Entry rank
- Promotion rates
- Number of positions available
- Where you can be stationed
- Travel opportunities
- Leadership opportunities
- College programs
- Enlistment bonuses
- Full or part time service
- "safety" in that job or service or duty position
- fun & excitement factor

Depending on how you rate the above will lead you to pick different services, MOS's, or programs depending on your needs and interest.

I've met enough people who have switched from one service to another to know that there's no one best -- there's only the one that suits YOU best.

Let's hope Azure Trance can figure that out.
 
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I read most of these replies before I skimmed on down to the bottom. My apologies if I repeat something.

Let me echo Psion's concerns and comments. I too was part of the illustrious nuclear program. Thousands join, few make it through the program. Those who make it through usually get out after the first tour. When I went in the enlistment bonus varied from 3k - 6k, and reenlistment bonuses were upwards of $45k and beyond.

Be suspicious when someone is willing to give you something for free...

And be even more suspicious when they are willing to PAY you for it.

E3 at the end of boot, E4 at the end of A school, and almost guaranteed E5 at the end of Nuke school (if not before). Its good money, but the lifestyle sucks, Nuclear or not.

Remember that the Navy fills its quota of MMs (machinist mates), EMs (electricians mates), and ETs (eletronic technicians) with dropouts of the nuclear program. If you drop from the program you wont get your enlistment bonus and you WILL be deployed to a ship. With the sea/shore rotation for these 3 jobs you can be virtually assured of going to sea if you drop from the program.

Compare the lifestyle of the Navy to say that of the Air Force. In the AirForce the lowest enlisted man can expect to have quarters he shares with no one or with only a few people after boot camp.

By contrast the Navy sleeps 80 stinky guys in a big berthing area with communal sinks, toilets, and showers.

One good thing. As a nuke, even if you drop out after A school, you'll likely never have to serve mess duty. Thats an honor reserved for E3s and below.

Another good thing. The Navy sees the world. I've been everywhere in Europe now and experienced cultures the likes of which few of my classmates ever will. The lesson?

The US has the rest of the world beat for the standard of living hands down (notice I didnt mention culture... lol)

Eric Price
Nuke Program Dropout, USN (EM5)
 

Olgar Shiverstone said:


Tell that to the airmen who died in the Khobar towers bombing. Safety is an awfully difficult thing to define relative to military service in today's world -- you can never predict where you'll end up.
That was a terrorist attack, not combat. Heck, they hit the Pentagon too. Generally speaking, Air Force personell are going to be a LOT safer in combat than any other armed forces personell. I was saying it was smarter to join the Air Force for all of the civilian opportunities that are available once you get out, and you get treated MUCH better. Did I mention the food is edible?
 

Originally posted by Tyrant
One good thing. As a nuke, even if you drop out after A school, you'll likely never have to serve mess duty.

Not true. I served mess duty, as a nuke, as an E5. Of course, this is the sub navy, where E3 and less are almost all from deck division. But if your division is manned up in the sub navy, you can count on some mess attendant time, even if you are fairly senior.
 

Like some of the others who have posted, I was also a Navy Nuke. As has been stated, this is the hardest school set in the Navy. I was also a submariner. I also have a friend who is in Nuclear Field EM "A" School right now. To answer a question asked earlier, if the NAVY fails to get you into the schools you have signed a contract for, you can get out of the Navy. This is actually likely to happen to my friend. He is a little older than most going into the military, and has managed to completely ruin his credit rating (and when I say ruin, I really mean RUIN, I think it's barely above 100). Because of this, he will not likely be able to get his security clearance. Without a security clearance, he will not be able to go to Power School, and that will mean that the Navy will be in breach of contract, and he will be given the option of changing rates (hard to find a decent one without a security clearance) or getting out of the Navy.

That being said, if the person going through the school doesn't make it (and academics are only one of a myriad of ways that this can happen), that person is still obligated to the remainder of his/her contract (and yes, women CAN be in the nuke program now, though this didn't used to be the case).

The nuclear pipeline is the toughest in the Navy, and there are many ways to wash out. Get caught drinking underage and you're out. Go nuts (and this isn't uncommon, Nuke school is the most stressful school I have ever been in) and you're out. There are many other ways. A couple of stories from when I was in Nuke school: One friend of mine got walking pneumonia, still had to do PT, and because of sheer exhaustion was not able to keep up. Technically, he failed out, but he could have been put back a class or two because he HAD been very sick and could prove it. They just wouldn't do it. Another guy was going through the checkout at the Exchange and the checkout girl missed something he was buying, as did he, but the chief (might have been a senior chief) behind him didn't. The chief also didn't say anything til this guy was out the door, making it theft. This guy was booted from the program (he was in my class, and we were about to graduate from A school). Another guy, who was the top guy in my A school class at the time, just flipped out. He asked my roommate if he could borrow his car to go to the airport so he could change his ticket home(we had just been informed of a change in our holiday schedule, so this made sense). Guy wasn't seen for nearly six months. They found him in NY, I think. Only reason they found him is cause he stole plates from a car in NJ, and those were on the car.

This isn't to run down the Nuke program, just saying that they have strict standards, it's a stressful environment, and they are (rightfully, in my mind) very anal about the rules.

About the work that you would do once in the fleet. I only know it from the submarine side, but that is very different from the surface side from everything I have heard. I was in a fast attack sub, which is also a lot different than a missile sub. On a fast attack, you are in and out of port. It is unusual to be out of port for more than a month. The exception to this is deployment. Deployment could be a Med cruise, or a Westpac. I was stationed on the west coast, so we did a Westpac. Basically, we were away from our home port for 6 months, doing a number of different things. I can say where we went, mostly, but not what we did, as I think that stuff is still all classified. We went to Japan, then to Guam, then we went on our spec-op (special operation, when we were out to sea for 67 days), then back to Guam (this was supposed to be the Philipines(sp?), but Mount Pinatubo(sp?) blew its top right as we were coming off spec-op and it was unsafe to go there), then to Australia, back to Guam, and finally back to our home port (which was Hawaii). For a good bit of this, I stood port and starboard watches (6 on, 6 off). On top of that, I had other duties, so I was lucky to get 6 hours of sleep a day.

Hmm, it's lunch time, think that's all for now.
 

Paladin said:
It ain't political: it's true. To them we are the "Great Western Devil" - their words, not mine. Telling the truth isn't political, and besides - I'm proud to be an American. If you're not - that's something you need to deal with. God Bless America and all of our Allies, and woe to our foes. I pray for the safe return of each and every one of our soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Granted I think you're a lot smarter if you go the airmen route...

The quote included: "Panama...people were actually trying to kill us just because we have more freedom than they do, or we believe in God, or we treat woman like equals, or whatever other B.S. reason they have for shooting one of us down."

Yes, that is a political statement. Yes, I think it is a crazy statement. People in Panama were not shooting at the US military because we are the Great Western Devil (they are a western nation) or because of our religious beliefs (they are Christians) or because of equality or any other "BS" reason. We invaded their country at shot at THEM, because their leader was a drug dealer (nothing the people of that country could do about it, they had already tried and failed in a coup), and because our own stupid prior President had released control over the canal to them (also nothing the people of that country could do about it). We killed civilians there who had nothing to do with any of it. In fact, even their military forces, the ones shooting at the US military, had little if nothing to do with all of it...they were being shot at, and so they shot back. Same thing our military forces would do.
 


Mistwell said:


The quote included: "Panama...people were actually trying to kill us just because we have more freedom than they do, or we believe in God, or we treat woman like equals, or whatever other B.S. reason they have for shooting one of us down."

Yes, that is a political statement. Yes, I think it is a crazy statement. People in Panama were not shooting at the US military because we are the Great Western Devil (they are a western nation) or because of our religious beliefs (they are Christians) or because of equality or any other "BS" reason. We invaded their country at shot at THEM, because their leader was a drug dealer (nothing the people of that country could do about it, they had already tried and failed in a coup), and because our own stupid prior President had released control over the canal to them (also nothing the people of that country could do about it). We killed civilians there who had nothing to do with any of it. In fact, even their military forces, the ones shooting at the US military, had little if nothing to do with all of it...they were being shot at, and so they shot back. Same thing our military forces would do.
No it's not political, we were extracating a known criminal from a seat of power. You said it yourself, their leader was a drug dealer. Therefore, we took his sorry ass out. The only people we shot at were the ones resisting us and by doing so, supporting a known criminal - making themselves criminals. We did not kill "civilians". Anyone shot by U.S. forces was a combatant because they chose to (stupidly) resist U.S. forces with lethal force. My best friend was one of the Pathfinders that dropped onto the airport. He received the Silver Star and Purple Heart for his combat actions there. I've spoken with him in detail on that mission, and believe me - there weren't too many "civilians" running around that didn't have AKs. Anyone stupid enough to open fire on U.S. forces deserves to be cut down in the hail of gunfire they receive.

Go Air Force.
 

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