(OT) Mugging/Revenge/Martial Arts

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Prison Guards are good people to go to for a few functional tips for dealing with the very nastiest situations you can be in.

The Texas Department of Criminal Justice gives its employees interesting training, and I'm not talking about guards so much as social workers and other 'civilian' personnel. Covers everything from basic tips on how to see situations and basic behavior around criminals to what you should do in a hostage situation and how you can expect law enforcement to respond to horrible horrible things you can do to someone who has you in a variety of holds.

They also have a pretty good sense of what level of advice will work for what level of dedication to and familiarity with combat someone may have.

That's all the info I have, haven't been in a violent situation in years. Feeling very lucky about that given the heaviness of this thread.

Had a friend who got into a knife fight in Dallas. The mugger had a knife and asked him for his wallet. I believe my friend attempted to give it to him, the mugger slashed his arm, and my friend drew his knife and stabbed at the guys face. Could have the order of events a little confused here, but at that point the mugger ran. He got to keep his wallet, but he looked like pure afterward.

 

[takyris]

I'm sorry.

Well, in fairness, I'm also really touchy about it.

However, I also used 'a little' to describe how much ninjutsu I've done but to be fair, I trained myself at least once a week for several years in the techniques garnered from a book;

Well, I hope it helped in some way, for ideas if nothing else, but my rants about learning martial arts from a book or video would be better off in a whole other thread.

I'd agree that depth is more important than breadth and I'd agree that my formalized training was little, but to turn your D&D analogy back upon you, no amount of training is as good as real XP, and so it could be said that my arena, reality, gave me a decent whack of depth

Fair enough. I'm not saying, "Fourecks would get his clock cleaned in a fight," however. I'm in no way doubting your ability to survive a fight. I'm just skeptical of your ability to judge whether years of martial arts training would have helped you in that fight, given that your training consisted of some lessons from a room-mate and a book. I don't doubt your ability to say "A kick to the head would be useless here," because in most street-fights, a kick to the head is gonna result in you getting laughed at and then punched in the groin. But not all martial arts is of the "kick to the head" variety.

What style is that? I'd love to get back into it...

Kenpo -- derivation of Ed Parker Kenpo. Frankly, though, it's all about the school. There's another Kenpo place just a few blocks away, and they're really big on tournaments and ego-stroking and getting their guys to black belt as quickly as possible. At my school, we do light sparring to help build reflexes and get you used to having fists coming at you -- and at the higher belts there's a full-contact test to prove to the teachers that you can keep fighting after someone has just bloodied your nose and knocked the wind out of you. Ninety-five percent of my school's material is designed for street practicality -- either directly, through the techniques, or indirectly, through the kata that gets you to practice the techniques over and over again so that they become useful.

And yeah, the "real-world practicality" stuff, which can range from "We're turning off the lights" night to practicing in the alley behind the school, has been great.

What I was trying to say, in my own convoluted way, was that if the very fundamental basics, upon which the style is built, breaks down in a real world situation, then the entire style is functionally useless. I would much rather know how to gouge someones eye out with my chin than know how to do a mae-giri, kin-giri (or however you spell 'em) combo...

I think that for the beginning belts, that's definitely true. We're taught to overcome that, though -- for example:

In one drill, we take one of our techniques, say "Fluttering Leaves", a basic technique where someone tries to push you and you knock their hands out to either side and do a right chop to the top of the ribs, left speed-chop to the throat, right spear-hand to the solar plexus, and left downward chop to the groin. Then our teachers say, "Okay, now, attackers, don't push them. GRAB them. Defenders, you have to make Fluttering Leaves work against a grab. You're attacked on the street, it's the first technique that occurs to you, and you've got to make it work."

So we learn to alter it that way. Then the teacher says, "Okay, now, attackers, this time, go back to pushing them, only when they knock your hands to the sides, throw a punch at them. You're a SMART attacker. You've got a backup plan. Defenders, figure out how to make Fluttering Leaves work with a push followed by a punch."

Then it's "Okay, now, attackers, do the push on them, let them start the technique, but block that first chop and try to grab their arm...."

Pretty soon we're adapting Fluttering Leaves against any dang attack in the whole world, doing different alterations if our first strike doesn't work, if our first and second strikes don't work, if the attacker is still standing at the end of it and we need to add more strikes onto the technique, or even if there's a club or knife involved in the fight and we have to keep them away from the weapon until we can get to it.

It's not something that any student picks up in one lesson. But at any school that trains for practicalities, it should be part of the curriculum. Is that the kind of thing you're thinking of?

-Tacky

PS: Maybe a difference between what you think of as martial arts and what I think of as martial arts is that in MY martial art, raking my fingers across their eyes, stomping the arch of their foot, grabbing their groin, and putting a half-fist into their throat is considered a thousand-year-old tradition.

 

[Kannik]

Well... I may be repeating what other's said, but I'd like to ramble a few points.

One, that learning a martial art in a state of revenge or fear situation is not a good way to do it, IMHO--at least, not a traditional, full-embodied martial arts.

Two, if you're interested in self defence, then I'd highly reccomend a self-defence course. There a tonne of them out there, they're usually done over the course of a month with a seminar each weekend, and they all teach basic, quick ways to defend yourself, not get sued and to get away. As you found out with your group of attackers, by resisting/etc most will end up letting you go since you're not being a push over.


Just some quick thoughts,

Kannik

 

[Jeremy]

Self defense classes would probably suit your needs better. Martial Arts tend to be as much about artistry and spiritual growth as combat schools these days.

There are exceptions, San Soo is one style that at least in my experience with it trains muscle memory and gut response to stimuli.

Very rarely does someone rise to the occasion, more often, the adrenaline kicks in, the brain turns off, and they default to whatever their base level of training is. Be it brawling with siblings, attempted movie martial arts, or deer-in-headlights lack of programming.

San Soo is a combat style that trains you in big and small areas to react to whatever in a manner that may be flashy, or may be ugly and frankly cruel, whatever happens to come out, comes out.

That may suit your needs, but if you don't want the mugger to go to the hospital missing an eye and with a shattered out knee, it might not be the style for you.

Simple self defense classes can teach you the most important lessons of rational thought and situational awareness. And they can give you some quick fix lessons like heavy object to the nose, or how to spot a weak link and remove yourself from a situation with the least fuss.

But I've had situations erupt on me after training in more popular martial arts like Tae Kwon Do and the like. And if you train with pads on against a single opponent whom you know is going to attack you and from what distance, then that's what you'll be good at reacting to.

I haven't had any altercations arise since I started San Soo, so I can't offer first hand results. Though I have witnessed what happened when a 3 year student was assaulted while we were in street clothes. My understanding of the situation, is best described by Pete's reaction, "I wasn't thinking, he went, and I went, and the next thing I knew, he was on the ground." Or something like that, you never remember quotes exactly.

Point is, in less than a second the threat was eliminated as it was very obvious we were not to be victimized. I don't know if I can break bones, but ya know, never mind. Each art has it's own strengths I'm sure, but you have to find what works for you. This all probably sounds either too violent or too commercial anyways.

Suffice it to say, the less pomp, ritual, and the like you can find to distract from the effectiveness of an art, the more likely it will match up with your needs. And place that calls itself a self defense club is much more likely to fit that bill than a place that calls itself a Martial Arts Studio or Dojo. Not that the first couldn't turn out to be an ex actor out to make a buck and the latter couldn't turn out to be taught by a grandmaster who believes in nothing short of the total training of his every student, I'm just saying, for your purposes it sounds like the former would work better.

I'm just gonna shut up now.