D&D 5E Other Strength-based / Constitution-based Skills?


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DND_Reborn

Legend
I think moving perception to int is ok, but I do feel like wisdom should have some sort of "awareness" skill. "Sense danger"?
It depends on how you view Intelligence vs. Wisdom. IMO there is too much ambiguity between them.

But a number of such things will be discussed at our group meeting on Saturday.
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
My problem with Con skill is: when do you use them that it could not just be a simple Con save?

Or maybe con save are only when specifically targeted by an effect and not general endurance against passive things such as strong winds or extreme cold.

- Concentration as a skill is pretty interesting. Yes, its a must for any casters, but there already some skills that are auto-pick (aka perception).

- Journey, as said in previous thread, could be for long distance voyage, to skip the monotonous day per day march.

- Grapple is a good idea for Str, if you also include the optional rule for climbing unto a larger creatures and fold it in this skill.

- Str could also have a Drive skill, for guiding mounts and vehicles and probably rowing and handle a ship rudder.

- For Lift, I'd go more genera with a Might skill, covering lifting, pushing, breaking stuff etc
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
Or maybe con save are only when specifically targeted by an effect and not general endurance against passive things such as strong winds or extreme cold.
That is the direction I am leaning, personally.

- Concentration as a skill is pretty interesting. Yes, its a must for any casters, but there already some skills that are auto-pick (aka perception).
Yeah, it is growing on me quickly.

- Journey, as said in previous thread, could be for long distance voyage, to skip the monotonous day per day march.
This type of stuff I would fold into Endurance.

- Grapple is a good idea for Str, if you also include the optional rule for climbing unto a larger creatures and fold it in this skill.
Yep, loving this skill, too.

- Str could also have a Drive skill, for guiding mounts and vehicles and probably rowing and handle a ship rudder.
Those would fall under Animal Handling or the Vehicle (land or water) proficiencies.

- For Lift, I'd go more genera with a Might skill, covering lifting, pushing, breaking stuff etc
Might is a good name as well, but for now I'm just going with Brawn, as the name is a bit more specific sounding than Might IMO.
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
You could maybe take Str and Con skills more in this in this direction.

Examples:
Speed (Str) - gain 5ft of movement per bonus/2
Hp (Con) - gain X hp per bonus
 


I think the lack of skills for con and str is actually a feature that makes strength and con more valuable, as a rogue can't just take expertise in the relevant skill and be as strong as barbarian.

So while I can follow the train of thought, I'd rather have grapple just add prof modifier to the check if active and a saving throw for passive application.
Maybe grapple should just be DC 8/10 + str + pb against str or dex saving throw. Maybe this would be a place where you could add +x per size modifier. If DC 10 was standard, advantage would add +5/-5.

Same would be perception. I would everyone just have a trained passive perception score and all active applications would go to investigation or saving throws.

I would generally increase the role of saving throws for all kind of skill checks where you don't do something actively. I really can't see any constitution skill that won't be covered by con saving throws or passive scores.
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
You make some good points so thanks for posting! I want to address this one in particular:
I think the lack of skills for con and str is actually a feature that makes strength and con more valuable, as a rogue can't just take expertise in the relevant skill and be as strong as barbarian.
All I am doing is changing Athletics to Grapple for those things, which actually accomplishes one goal. Rogue could take expertise in Athletics and be both Athletic and good at grappling, better than an equal STR Fighter or Barbarian (even when raging I think, once you get a proficiency bonus of +3, the rogue edges out the raging Barbarian to tie or win).

By splitting up Athletics from Grapple, you don't get that unless the Rogue uses expertise in Grapple, but then misses out on the Athletics skills.

Now, "as strong as a barbarian" is a bit different. Other than rage, there is nothing stopping a rogue (or a wizard for that matter), from being "as strong as" a barbarian.

So while I can follow the train of thought, I'd rather have grapple just add prof modifier to the check if active and a saving throw for passive application.
Maybe grapple should just be DC 8/10 + str + pb against str or dex saving throw. Maybe this would be a place where you could add +x per size modifier. If DC 10 was standard, advantage would add +5/-5.

Same would be perception. I would everyone just have a trained passive perception score and all active applications would go to investigation or saving throws.
I like these ideas and will roll them around in my head for a while...
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
In addition to repurposing Concentration into an actual skill underneath Constitution... you can do the same for the Death Saving Throw: Raise the DC for a successful Death save to 15, then make a skill called 'Mettle' and allow characters to add their Mettle skill modifier to Death save checks.

Granted... adding CON (and/or Mettle) to Death saves is just giving even more reason for PCs to raise up their CON, but then again it's not like they aren't going to be doing that anyway.

And of course for your Strength skill... the last other idea would be to just re-align our thinking by considering Melee attacks as a skill rather than a separate thing. I mean, mechanically they are exactly the same... you add your proficiency bonus to the roll when you make a roll using your Strength ability score. We call one set "skills" and the other set "attacks" just because we conceptually want to think of them as two different things... but they really aren't. I mean, we don't have any issue with a combat attack like grappling NOT using our STR "Attack" type and instead using our STR "Skill" type... so why not just cut out the middleman and put down 'Melee' as a skill? Because goodness knows that's one of the most used STR checks there is in the game.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
You could then also put 'Ranged' down as a DEX skill... and this would also give you a reason to remove Finesse weapon attacks if you wanted to from the game by not having a DEX-based melee attack Skill. ;)
 


DND_Reborn

Legend
You could then also put 'Ranged' down as a DEX skill... and this would also give you a reason to remove Finesse weapon attacks if you wanted to from the game by not having a DEX-based melee attack Skill. ;)
First, just FYI, we removed the Finesse and Two-Handed categories (folding them into Light and Heavy).

So, for us, Light weapons can use your Dexterity modifier on your attack roll. However, you do not add your Dexterity modifier to damage, that uses your Strength modifier instead.

Each weapon is also treated as its own proficiency. So, you don't have all martial weapons, but might be proficient in battleaxes, broadsword, dagger, and longbow. This is preferable to having Ranged as a skill IMO since you have to select what ranged weapons you are good at, instead of all of them.
 




Winterthorn

Monster Manager
Just to point out something that always bothered me: there are no bodybuilders winning olympic swimming competitions - no swimming medalist packs on muscularity like Arnold S. (aka Conan) - it was always a mistake to attribute the skill of swimming to strength and, considering the intense cardiovascular training involved in swimming, Swimming as skill IMHO should rely on Constitution.

I like Running as a skill relying upon CON too - makes sense to me as it too is cardio intensive.

Edit: are there not trades and crafts that need strength? Smithing, longshoreman, mining? Or is that too niche?
 
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AnotherGuy

Adventurer
You could then also put 'Ranged' down as a DEX skill... and this would also give you a reason to remove Finesse weapon attacks if you wanted to from the game by not having a DEX-based melee attack Skill. ;)

And there we have it...I was wondering if anyone was going to make the move to incorporate combat (archery, melee...etc) after grapple got included. That is why I have always said VtM has the best system for modern D&D.

My advice to the poster is incorporate - the skills, knowledge and combat sections of D&D into the the VtM layout for skills, abilities and knowledge. Don't worry about symmetry, it is not important. That way you and players have the freedom to match their Attributes (STR, INT...etc) to any of the skills, abilities and knowledge.

You can even change the name Inspiration to Willpower or entirely change the mechanic - it won't break the game.

My two cents. :)
 
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DND_Reborn

Legend
And there we have it...I was wondering if anyone was going to make the move to incorporate combat (archery, melee...etc) after grapple got include.
It already is. Your proficiency in weapons IS your skill with them.

What is wrong IMO is the generic simple and martial broad groups. As the OP, I can tell you we moved to individual weapon proficiencies (skills as such) a while ago, before I posted this thread. So, for example, Fighters know 4 weapons, and a background can add up to 2 weapons as well.
 


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