Other tools for PbP games?

[Morrus]

The wiki allows
- Templates that take simple input and make complex output (formatted char-sheets from just a few numbers and text); also does some validation.

A form could do the job just as well, though?

Although bear in mind that verging towards actual character generation risks a takedown notice from WotC.

- Editing by not just the poster but the GM and the Living World judges (important for character approval).

Well that's just permissions. Easy peasy.

- Automatic linkage to other characters that share the same category tag (for noting all Warforged, all Warlocks, etc.).

Easy enough.

 

[Morrus]

I currently use ENWorld for my actual game play, and Obsidian Portal for my campaign management. I really like the options they've got over there. I'll go ahead and say that campaign management is all they do, so it's unlikely you'll be able to set up anything that elaborate. However, I really think you're on the right track here; I'd just suggest that you take a look over there for some potential inspiration. For an example of what a GM who's ready to devote some time and effort, check out Arsheesh's Tales of Darkmoon Vale.

I see nothing there that doesn't look easy to do here with a little time.

Although I don't understand how the character sheets there work - are they simply uploading images of their character sheets, doing character generation, or entering the data into forms, or what?

 

[IronWolf]

So here's a really preliminary idea based on this thread.

CAMPAIGN MANAGER

You can create campaigns or characters. There is a list of your current campaigns and characters.

Campaign - name, description, image.

Character - name, description, image, stats (a blank box), file attachment (if you wish to attach a CB file or your 120-page PDF character background).

The two interact in the following way:

CAMPAIGN

• A GM creates a campaign, assigns a description, recruits players.
• Players "join" his campaign with one of their characters. The GM approves or denies that join request.
• He then has a list and details of the characters playing in his campaign.
• He has an optional "lock" button with which he can prevent a player editing his character while playing the campaign (may or may not be used depending on whetehr the GM is the type to do so or not).
• He has a list of dice rolls used in his campaign.

CHARACTER

• A member creates characters.
• You can have multiple characters.
• The system doesn't actually handle any stats - it's all just a blank text box and you can enter the character stats however you like (your GM may require a specific format, for example, before he approves your join request).
• You can have a character join an existing campaign; the request goes to the GM who needs to approve it.
• You can post as your character, which gives you a different post format. Instead of your username, avatar, location, post count, etc. on the left you see your character name, image, short description such as "Level 8 Eladrin Gardener", and a note which says "This is a character belonging to X".

How does all that sound? Remember I don't PbP myself, so I won't take any offence if any of my assumptions about how it works are wrong.

I like the campaign manager idea. Anything that helps bring the information one needs while playing in a PbP is a definite plus.

I think the other thing I would suggest is a way to "link" threads in a PbP game to a place in the campaign manager. So for example in this campaign manager if I could see a quick filter of the threads related to the PbP that would be great. For example, the IC thread, the OOC thread and such.

If a PbP runs long enough there is a good chance it will have multiple IC and OOC threads, so being able to have each of those easily accessible from the campaign manager would be great and help put all the information one needs at their fingertips.

I suspect thread tags would help with keeping threads together for display.

 

[Morrus]

I think the other thing I would suggest is a way to "link" threads in a PbP game to a place in the campaign manager. So for example in this campaign manager if I could see a quick filter of the threads related to the PbP that would be great. For example, the IC thread, the OOC thread and such.

Absolutely. I should have mentioned that in the description, but it's an essential function.

 

[stonegod]

A form could do the job just as well, though?

Although bear in mind that verging towards actual character generation risks a takedown notice from WotC.

it not generation; it's just uploading the character sheet in another form. You have to crunch the initial math elsewhere (and the class/power/feat texts). In fact, as per WotC guidelines, we only post final power numbers, not things like 2[W], etc.

A smart form could do that. Ive had some thoughts there, but not the resources to dedicate to it.

 

[HolyMan]

Not only linking threads but I was thinking some way of clicking a post and sending it to a favorites spot in a campaign manager.

The way your profile "collects" every post you make is their a way to add a favorite posts spot and then a "send to favorite's" button. This would be very useful in living worlds and campaigns as if as the DM I post something signifigant I can then send it to my faves for storage till I have time to go back and put it in it's proper place.

Players could use it to track treasure gained or XP rewards. I haven't used the search function much (just in LEW researching for games). But it gives a lot of "extras" that takes more time to sift through. I DM 12 games now and play in 11. I am always looking to make my searching a lot faster.

HM

 

[Morrus]

Not only linking threads but I was thinking some way of clicking a post and sending it to a favorites spot in a campaign manager.

The way your profile "collects" every post you make is their a way to add a favorite posts spot and then a "send to favorite's" button. This would be very useful in living worlds and campaigns as if as the DM I post something signifigant I can then send it to my faves for storage till I have time to go back and put it in it's proper place.

Players could use it to track treasure gained or XP rewards. I haven't used the search function much (just in LEW researching for games). But it gives a lot of "extras" that takes more time to sift through. I DM 12 games now and play in 11. I am always looking to make my searching a lot faster.

HM

I'm afraid I don't understand. You want to bookmark specific forum posts somewhere?

I don't see that as being difficult, but would not a designated "Reward Tracking" page in the Campaign Manager achieve that more elegantly?

 

[evilbob]

A form could do the job just as well, though?

What is an example of a form?

The templates - bits of actual meta wiki code that crunch numbers for you - can't be stressed enough. It's hard to re-create a character sheet in text; it takes a long time and it's a huge deterrent to new players. Also, you've got the WotC specter on your back if you create something that's TOO good. What we have on the wiki is a delicate balance; it would have to be simpler than that to get everyone to move back, especially since we just moved. That said, even if something is complicated to set up, if you can set it up once and forget it we have lots of talented, dedicated people who know a thing or two about coding who are happy to help.

Also, to expand on what stonegod said: we need the ability for multiple people to be able to edit and "ok" the sheet AND to be able to have a "frozen" state once it is okayed. However, it still needs to be able to be changed even after frozen! Currently, this is handled extremely well by wikis thanks to their edit history feature. Every time something is changed, a full change state is created: you will always know if something is different because the full edit history (back to page creation) is on display for all to see. We need that level of accountability and flexibility.


Re: Campaign stuff
This looks pretty cool to me! Although I don't know that it really gains much more than a forum thread already does. Especially since you'd still have to use a forum thread in conjunction, right?

The main usefulness seems to be having a link to a character sheet on hand at any time, along with cloud-based DM notes that the DM can keep track of - which is very nice for people like me who use multiple computers in a day. Neither of those are really earth-shaking, however. If you could throw in a battlemat feature on top of that, I am sold.


Re: Dice
Can we make them smal- just kidding! It WOULD be nice to have a special DM-only dice area that could also be revealed as necessary, however. And if dice rolls were shown in the "Topic Review" when you're replying.


Re: Aliases
Also cool! I'm also wondering what the max number would be (at least 5? 10?) and if the alias would also have a link to both the character sheet AND the normal options for someone posting. For example, I'm exceptionally lazy and if I want to write someone a PM, I'd rather just continue to be able to click their name in a thread and PM them instead of having to click through a few screens to get to it. Another cool thing would be if the alias had its own speech color that you could set yourself, and any time you used a [speech] tag or something similar, it used that color.

 

[HolyMan]

Correct, I hope the campaign manager would have a rewards tracker spot.

What I think would help is a place to put that reward post "temporarly" till I had time to go back and then move it to the rewards tracker spot.

It would be very helpful with things like NPC names and descriptions. After making up an NPC on the spot it is a chore to go find him and add him to the NPC spot in my RG.

And in sandbox or living worlds threads important "add ons" to the world, could be sent to the faves spot till they could be added to the campaign wiki's.

HM

 

[Morrus]

What is an example of a form?

A form is where you enter info in boxes. The system then uses that info to do whatever the programmer tells it to do. In this case, presumably, display a character sheet of some kind.

Also, to expand on what stonegod said: we need the ability for multiple people to be able to edit and "ok" the sheet AND to be able to have a "frozen" state once it is okayed. However, it still needs to be able to be changed even after frozen! Currently, this is handled extremely well by wikis thanks to their edit history feature. Every time something is changed, a full change state is created: you will always know if something is different because the full edit history (back to page creation) is on display for all to see. We need that level of accountability and flexibility.

This simple permissions stuff is all very easy.


R

e: Campaign stuff
This looks pretty cool to me! Although I don't know that it really gains much more than a forum thread already does. Especially since you'd still have to use a forum thread in conjunction, right?

Well, that's what I'm asking. If it's not gonan be useful, I ain't gonna spend large sums of money developing it.

The thread's about asking what folks would like for PbP games. This is something that combines all the things folks said (so far in this thread) that they'd like.

The main usefulness seems to be having a link to a character sheet on hand at any time, along with cloud-based DM notes that the DM can keep track of - which is very nice for people like me who use multiple computers in a day. Neither of those are really earth-shaking, however. If you could throw in a battlemat feature on top of that, I am sold.

Re: Dice
Can we make them smal- just kidding!

Grrrrr!

Also cool! I'm also wondering what the max number would be (at least 5? 10?) and if the alias would also have a link to both the character sheet AND the normal options for someone posting. For example, I'm exceptionally lazy and if I want to write someone a PM, I'd rather just continue to be able to click their name in a thread and PM them instead of having to click through a few screens to get to it. Another cool thing would be if the alias had its own speech color that you could set yourself, and any time you used a [speech] tag or something similar, it used that color.

I doubt we'l set a limit on Aliases (characters). If we do, it'd be something very high - 20 or more.