D&D 5E [Out of the Abyss]Magic item distribution?

[zingbobco000]

This is a fundamental mistake in your analysis.

The adventure is set up as a sandbox, not as a linear path. There are 4 encounters in the 2nd chapter that are to be used between the 3rd and 7th chapters.

The random encounters as well are used as the party travels from place to place.

The 2nd chapter does not equal 2nd level.

Yes I understand that, my thinking there was that the party through random encounters would most likely gain at least 600 exp. I understand that it's a sandbox and I understand that I should be using it throughout levels 3-7. However I believed that the most prime place to put it would be here at level 2 because that is what WotC advises for their adventurers league. Also, it's not a fundamental mistake, it's not really even a mistake it's more of just something that I thought was a given because that's how WotC thought it would work. If you want me to edit it that's fine, but I was just going by the people who (kinda) designed this adventure were thinking.

 

[CapnZapp]

I would just ignore the objection, zingbobco000. Keep up the good work!

 

[abirdcall]

Why focus on the so-called "mistake". To make informed decisions, we begin by enumerating all the loot the module offers.

The fact some of it won't be found, some opponents will be treated as allies (and thus won't be looted) and that some of it will not even be in any given play-through, does not change this, and does not make collecting it a "mistake".

It's not whether it will be found or not. It is what level it is supposed to be at. The claim is that it is at level 2 and that it is way too much magic for level 2 characters. The mistake is that the scenarios are presented in chapter 2 and are to be introduced up to level 7.

That is a huge difference.

Yes I understand that, my thinking there was that the party through random encounters would most likely gain at least 600 exp. I understand that it's a sandbox and I understand that I should be using it throughout levels 3-7. However I believed that the most prime place to put it would be here at level 2 because that is what WotC advises for their adventurers league. Also, it's not a fundamental mistake, it's not really even a mistake it's more of just something that I thought was a given because that's how WotC thought it would work. If you want me to edit it that's fine, but I was just going by the people who (kinda) designed this adventure were thinking.

Really, Adventurer's League goes through all of the chapter 2 encounters for second level characters and then moves on?

That is bizarre and not how the actual adventure path is constructed.

I am going to stick to what the book says.

It's not a given that you do everything in chapter 2 in level 2. You are adding that. The adventure doesn't make sense if you play it that way.

It is useful information to list the magic items by chapter but you can't accurately tie them to level like that. At best you can say that the items are available from levels 2-7. Not 2. Not 1-4.

 

[zingbobco000]

It's not whether it will be found or not. It is what level it is supposed to be at. The claim is that it is at level 2 and that it is way too much magic for level 2 characters. The mistake is that the scenarios are presented in chapter 2 and are to be introduced up to level 7.

That is a huge difference.




Really, Adventurer's League goes through all of the chapter 2 encounters for second level characters and then moves on?

That is bizarre and not how the actual adventure path is constructed.

I am going to stick to what the book says.

It's not a given that you do everything in chapter 2 in level 2. You are adding that. The adventure doesn't make sense if you play it that way.

It is useful information to list the magic items by chapter but you can't accurately tie them to level like that. At best you can say that the items are available from levels 2-7. Not 2. Not 1-4.

Well 2-7 wouldn't physically comply with the DMG as the DMG has separate tables for 1-4 and 5-10. So I would either have to choose to follow Out of the Abyss or the DMG and the AL option. I understand that it's bizarre but that is the system I'm using. My goal is to figure out over the course of the book, I'm just using the levels presented as a guide for what tier I should be in when making the tables.

 

[abirdcall]

Well 2-7 wouldn't physically comply with the DMG as the DMG has separate tables for 1-4 and 5-10. So I would either have to choose to follow Out of the Abyss or the DMG and the AL option. I understand that it's bizarre but that is the system I'm using. My goal is to figure out over the course of the book, I'm just using the levels presented as a guide for what tier I should be in when making the tables.

It's not that it is bizarre, it is that it is wrong.

You are saying that these items are available to the adventurers at 2nd level, then comparing what the DMG says 2nd level adventurers get on average. This is where you are wrong.

You can't make a proper comparison because you are using different units.

It would be like comparing 2 people's vacations and commenting that one person travelled an average of 80km/h and for the other, it was an average of 30 degrees so their vacations were very different. It makes no sense.

If you want to be accurate and simply show the magic items available in the adventure you could list them by chapter. That is highly useful.

If you want to compare them by level you could try taking a look at how difficult the scenarios are and then making a guess at what level you would want to be to have a fair chance of completing them. You could then compare them by level with the caveat that there is some guess work involved and actual play experience may vary greatly.

 

[zingbobco000]

It's not that it is bizarre, it is that it is wrong.

You are saying that these items are available to the adventurers at 2nd level, then comparing what the DMG says 2nd level adventurers get on average. This is where you are wrong.

You can't make a proper comparison because you are using different units.

It would be like comparing 2 people's vacations and commenting that one person travelled an average of 80km/h and for the other, it was an average of 30 degrees so their vacations were very different. It makes no sense.

If you want to be accurate and simply show the magic items available in the adventure you could list them by chapter. That is highly useful.

If you want to compare them by level you could try taking a look at how difficult the scenarios are and then making a guess at what level you would want to be to have a fair chance of completing them. You could then compare them by level with the caveat that there is some guess work involved and actual play experience may vary greatly.

Ok, if you feel strongly about that then I will edit my charts to instead have the chapters be represented but not the levels.

 

[zingbobco000]

Here is tier 2's list:
I'm using chapters 5-14 (as a lot of the chapters don't result in a level up)

Chapter 5: Neverlight Grove
Scroll of Protection against Fiends (Table A)
+2 Studded Leather Armor (Table I)
+2 Shortsword (Table G)
Bag of Holding (Table A&B so Table B)
Scroll of Remove Curse (Table B)
Scroll of Spider Climb (Table B)

Chapter 6: Blingdenstone
Spell Gem of See Invisibility (though it will most likely be used already when the party approaches) (Most likely table B)
A lot of spell gems (they require sovereign glue which I doubt the characters have)
+1 Shortsword (Table F)
Spell Gem of Hallow (though it's a quest item) (Most likely Table C)
Level 4 (probably) Spell Gem (Most likely Table C)
Potion of Invisibility (Table D)
Earth Elemental Gem (Table B)
Potion of Poison (Table B)
Spell Scroll of Conjure Minor Elementals (Table C)
Spell Scroll of Speak with Plants (Table B)
Consumable Crystal Ball of True Seeing (Most likely table E)
Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals (Table G)

Chapter 7: Escape from the Underdark
Tentacle Rod (Table G)
Wand of Viscid Globs (Most likely table F)

Chapter 8: Audience in Gauntlgrym (you shouldn't level up)
+1 Warhammer (Table F)
Dust of Disappearance (requires killing faction ally) (Table B)
Goggles of Night (requires killing faction ally) (Table B)

Chapter 9: Mantol Derith (you shouldn't level up)
Heward's Handy Haversack (Table C)
3d4 Table A magic items (requires breaking into warehouses)
3 Potions of Vitality (Table D)
Flame Tongue (Table G)

Chapter 10: Descent into the Depths
Hat of Disguise (requires killing faction ally) (Table F)
Piwafwi (requires killing faction ally) (Table F)

Chapter 11: Gravenhollow (you shouldn't level up)

Chapter 12: The Tower of Vengeance (there is basically no experience so no level up here either)
4 Piwafwi (Table F)
4 Scrolls of Protection from Fiends (Table A)

Chapter 13: The Wormwrithings
+2 Longsword (Table G)
Potion of Gaseous Form (Table C)
+1 Dagger (Table F)
Spell Scroll of Shield (Table A)
Spell Scroll of Phantasmal Force (Table B)
Ring of Protection (Table G)
Ring of Free Action (Table G)
2 Potions of Greater Healing (Table B)
Gem of Brightness (Table F)
Potion of Healing (Table A)
Potion of Poison (Table B)
Spell Scroll of Globe of Invulnerability (Table D)
Gem of Seeing (Table G)
Necklace of Adaptation (Table F)
Robe of Eyes (Table G)

Chapter 14: The Labyrinth
Potion of Mind Reading (Table C)

Analysis:
7 Magic Items from Table A
7 Magic Items from Table B
6 Magic Items from Table C
2 Magic Items from Table D
1 Magic Item from Table E
10 Magic Items from Table F
9 Magic Items from Table G
1 Magic Item from Table I

Table:

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]What's given in OotA chp. 5-14[/td]
[td]Suggested in DMG[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table A[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table B[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table C[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table D[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table E[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table F[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table G[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Table I[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

So there are a lot less weak magic items and a lot more powerful magic items at tier 2.

 

[CapnZapp]

So... to summarize the info I wanted:

Tentacle Rod
Wand of Viscid Globs
+1 Dagger
Sun Blade, sentient
Boots of Speed
+2 Studded Leather
+2 Shortsword
+1 Shortsword
Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals
+1 Warhammer
Heward's Handy Haversack
Flame Tongue
+2 Longsword
+1 Dagger
Ring of Protection
Ring of Free Action
Gem of Brightness
Gem of Seeing
Necklace of Adaptation
Robe of Eyes

Twenty items (excluding any consumable or need-to-kill-ally or crazy OP monster), enough for five items each, given the four-man party.

My take away is that there are plenty of "plain" magic weapons (unless you stripped away information on special abilities). This is something I will embellish, I think.

One question: the Monster Manual writes about drow items as optional gear. Is this specified by Abyss? That is, has the adventure author made the choice for us which, if any, drow that carries magic gear of the kind mentioned in the MM? (I am aware OotA repeats the rules on drow items. But I will assume any such gear to be noted specifically. That is, all the +1 and +2 weapons in your listing are the kind that survives sunlight, right?)

 

[CapnZapp]

So there are a lot less weak magic items and a lot more powerful magic items at tier 2.

Stripping away consumables, you're saying the module adds roughly double the number of permanent items appropriate for mid-level characters than suggested by the DMG?

Thanks!

 

[CapnZapp]

Finally, an observation:

There seems to be a distinct lack of items suitable for heavy tanks, am I right? (No magical plate mail or greataxes, for example)?

---

Since I have five players, not four, this isn't a huge problem. One of the reasons I wanted this shakedown is to see where to put in that extra item.

That is, to follow the same distribution the OotA authors have chosen but with a fifth player, add two items each from Table F and Table G. (Again, not worrying about consumables)

Excellent help, again thanks!