"Over the Top" Spells

[Victim]

Just had a thought. In quite a bit of fantasy fiction, notably LOTR off the top off my head, wizards can wield tremendous powers but choose not to most of the time. Is there an in game way of representing this kind of magic? Perhaps XP penalties for spells which break the laws of nature in obvious ways. I might have to check out White Wolf's Mage on this, from what I've heard it has great rules for balancing magic based on how overt and obvious it is.

If a wizard expects a powerful enemy to be somewhat aware of his actions, and believes that the enemy would attack him in some way if he ever used up all his spells, then he might be more conservative.

Similarly, the threat of intra party conflict would force a mage to keep spells in reserve.

 

[Wee Jas]

Wheres Tom Cashel? I think we can work Harm into this topic!!

 

[Dark Dragon]

Wheres Tom Cashel? I think we can work Harm into this topic!!

Perhaps the magic words are needed for that. "Broken" was important, IIRC

 

[ashockney]

I'm with you on this one...

Flight
Invisibility
Teleportation
Detect Truth
Illusions that are real
Raise the Dead
Feed Armies
Wish


I wouldn't even necessarily have a problem with all of the above if they were more "rare" and not so "available" and easily used.

 

[Zappo]

Wish is "available and easily used"?

 

[Voadam]

Fly can feel out of genre.

In my last game I used fly all the time (I have winged boots) and I felt like a super hero flying around to save innocent bystanders, spot the bad guy and swoop to within range and then throw attack spells at them.

Classically Witches brooms need to be ridden, as do carpets, griffins, dragons or giant eagles (as seen in FotR).

Fly mechanically makes you fly like superman, really fast, arms free, no problems, no mechanism.

 

[Victim]

Fly can feel out of genre.

In my last game I used fly all the time (I have winged boots) and I felt like a super hero flying around to save innocent bystanders, spot the bad guy and swoop to within range and then throw attack spells at them.

Classically Witches brooms need to be ridden, as do carpets, griffins, dragons or giant eagles (as seen in FotR).

Fly mechanically makes you fly like superman, really fast, arms free, no problems, no mechanism.

Fly also has superb manueverability. You can pretty much stop on a dime, fly backwards at full speed - with only a minor penalty for changing directions, etc. A mage casting his first ever fly spell is capable of more moves in the air than he could walking or running, and can out fly most normal flying creatures.

 

[Numion]

Just had a thought. In quite a bit of fantasy fiction, notably LOTR off the top off my head, wizards can wield tremendous powers but choose not to most of the time. Is there an in game way of representing this kind of magic? Perhaps XP penalties for spells which break the laws of nature in obvious ways. I might have to check out White Wolf's Mage on this, from what I've heard it has great rules for balancing magic based on how overt and obvious it is.

Actually, Gandalf never wields great magics in LotR (or hobbit). A couple of flashes or burning sticks here and there. Nothing big. He seems to be a more of a sage type of guy. (slash 3rd level wizard )

 

[Psion]

As a general rule of thumb, any spell that allows a spellcaster to simply fly up in the air, bombard a fighter of equal level with spells, and kill him without ever taking a risk is probably way over-the-top.

Um, doesn't our poor fighter carry a missile weapon?

At any rate, to the point, the D&D magic system is fairly flexible on this point: it revolves around spell lists. You want to make a spell less common, you can raise its level or remove it. For example, Rokugan has almost no raise dead magic (only Maho Tsukai get it, and it is considered a violation of the natural order) and teleportation spells are more limited and flavorful (for example, there is one that works only in a connected body of water.)

I have considered such alterations to these spells in my own game, but I wonder: would that be of interest to players? I think that a different selection of spells would make for a different feel, but would players get anything out of it?

 

[Numion]

Wish is "available and easily used"?

Easy and available, if you're level 17+ and willing to waste 5000 xp a pop.