D&D 4E Paizo and 4e.

[Melan]

If WotC came out and said the 4th ed core rulebooks were going to be printed on fruit roll-ups, there'd be 4 or 5 specific posters who would say things like "Finally!" or "We've been transcribing our rules onto fruit roll-ups for years now!" or "I for one welcome our new Fruity Masters!"

And don't forget, "If you don't like fruit roll-ups, then you just aren't the target audience for 4th ed. Adapt or perish!"

Precisely.

Also, let's keep in mind that right until the 4e announcement, this has been a 3.x-oriented site. A lot of people come here who have invested heavily (in terms of money and emotion) into the then current game. Why the surprise when they express disagreement with the changes? A year ago, most of you folks were in the same boots - namely, you believed 3.5/3.0 was the best thing EVER. The grumblers still feel that way, and they are letting their opinions known.

There is also another emotional element: the way some 4e fans (pre-fans? ) talk about 3e is nothing but infuriating and inhuman. Just read my sig for an incredibly offensive example. That kind of stuff, very unsurprisingly, irritates people.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Precisely.

Also, let's keep in mind that right until the 4e announcement, this has been a 3.x-oriented site. A lot of people come here who have invested heavily (in terms of money and emotion) into the then current game. Why the surprise when they express disagreement with the changes? A year ago, most of you folks were in the same boots - namely, you believed 3.5/3.0 was the best thing EVER. The grumblers still feel that way, and they are letting their opinions known.

They can air their opinions in General, and not by threadcrapping every 4e thread. Emotional or not, there's nothing they can do about the structure of 4e at this point.

 

[Twowolves]

They can air their opinions in General, and not by threadcrapping every 4e thread. Emotional or not, there's nothing they can do about the structure of 4e at this point.

You know, I thought that might be the case, so I avoided the 4th ed forum entirely for a while, just to have the same hadfull of 4th ed fruit roll-up guys go into the other forums and, as you put it, "threadcrap" over there as well. What once was my online site of choice to go and discuss my favorite hobby became the place to go to hear how broken, unfun and outdated my favorite hobby is, no matter to which forum I fled.

When I read comments like yours, it's a prime example of "your opinion is not wanted here", one of 4 or 5 boilerplate replies I outlined in a post a week or so ago, the last time I bothered to come to that formerly wonderful place known as ENWorld.

It's nice to see that in a thread about 3rd party support of D&D where the question is actually being debated about how long 3.5 ed support should continue that those in favor of making this support last longer get told to no longer post here, because this is a 4th ed forum. Told, even, to go to another party's website, because our opinions are flat-out unwanted. Even when those opinions are 100% on topic and germaine to the discussion.

Nice. This is not the community it once was.

 

[DaveMage]

You know, I haven't seen very many 3E supporters bashing 4E supporters for voicing their opinion of the game, yet I'm seeing lots of 4E supporters bashing 3E supporters just for voicing an opinion.

3E supporters are criticizing 4E the GAME, while some (not all) 4E supporters are critcizing the *people* voicing their pro-3E opinion.

Look in the mirror, people.

 

[Maggan]

This is not the community it once was.

Come on, people have been saying that about EN World since the start. And come to think of it they, and you, are right as well.

It can't be the community it once was. It can't stay the same, it can't fit everyone all the time. 4e is one of the biggest developments in the history of D&D (up along with all other editions changes). It is bound to have an effect on EN World, one way or the other.

I believe there are plenty of 3e players on the boards, and they're doing what they've always done; chatting about the game and improvements, changes and whatnot.

Quite a few of them are also stoked about 4e, and are using the 4e sub-forum as a channel to talk about how stoked they are. If this spills over into 3e forums, and equals thread-crapping, alert the moderators. I'm sure they'll take care of it.

/M

 

[Desdichado]

Nice. This is not the community it once never was.

FIFY

 

[kenmarable]

I'm confused, I thought we were talking about Paizo a few pages back?

If you really want to have this debate about what is and isn't alright to discuss in these threads, go elsewhere, please.

Back on topic, it sounds like things are getting more hopeful for Paizo and other publishers to get the rules soon. So that's good.

I imagine if they do convert to 4e, they will probably swap everything over. But if it is staggered I wonder if it would be better/more interesting/useful/something to convert GameMastery Modules before Pathfinder, or vice versa.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

A year ago, most of you folks were in the same boots - namely, you believed 3.5/3.0 was the best thing SO FAR.

FIFY

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

You know, I haven't seen very many 3E supporters bashing 4E supporters for voicing their opinion of the game, yet I'm seeing lots of 4E supporters bashing 3E supporters just for voicing an opinion.

3E supporters are criticizing 4E the GAME, while some (not all) 4E supporters are critcizing the *people* voicing their pro-3E opinion.

Well, actually, most of the 3E supporters are going on about how with 4E, D&D is over, or it's dead to them, or they got fired as a customer, or "I, for one, will not be buying it," and they bring this out in every thread they come across, just in case we forgot over the last four hours that they hate 4E and will never, ever play it.

I'm saying this as someone who really does like 3E, and who plans to keep playing it long after 4E is released. There are things about 4E I'm not totally thrilled with either, (and things I am totally thrilled with). However, I don't drag my dead horse around the boards for beating. I am sympathetic to the folks who are tired of the reek of dead horses.

 

[DaveMage]

Well, actually, most of the 3E supporters are going on about how with 4E, D&D is over, or it's dead to them, or they got fired as a customer, or "I, for one, will not be buying it," and they bring this out in every thread they come across, just in case we forgot over the last four hours that they hate 4E and will never, ever play it.

I can see this point, but at the same time, when there's new information released, it might be a case where the same critique applies - or it may not.

But then, this has been the case here forever. There are some posters who have moved to (for example) C&C and whenever a tidbit about 3.5 would come out, they'd express their thoughts - sometimes in the negative, at which point they'd go off on how good C&C (or whatever system) was better. I didn't take these comments personally, and I don't think people should do so about 4E now. And while I might not agree with the comments people make, as long as they aren't personal attacks, they very much should have a right to express them.

If someone keeps saying the same thing over and over and it's annoying the hack out of you - well, that's what the ignore feature is for. I've put people on ignore and then taken them off later when times changed. It works wonders!