Paladin breaks word - appropriate atonement

[FreeTheSlaves]

Thanks Nightfall, yes I think a bit of extra depth roleplaying could be in order. All the characters are going to explore their character's development during this year of downtime, and at the end of it have some new addition to the character.

Btw, what's a GR Assassin? We just houseruled this rogue/assassin to being one of a kind non-evil with compunctions on who he kills.

Oh yeah my mate emailed me the following. Could be good character development to be fallen for a bit eh?

hi brendan

i would have never of aligned with the cult and
mistress was neutral.

doesnt seem so bad to begin with but then im thinking
he has done what is on the same line as sayid or even
worse as he is LG and has the whole living up to a
code. Sayid was nuetral doing a barbaric thing in a
barbaric tribe that is tradition (well i decided it
was tradition as im sure conan would have done it or
something like that and i also wanted to move the game
along as it seemed to be stalling).

Aligning with evil in anyway and then worrying about
breaking the agreement is a sign he was wanting to do
evil to get through a situation in the easiest way,
which is not always the GOOD way; so i would think he
is now LN or tending LN, unless he can prove
otherwise, but he is worried about the LAW and not so
much the GOOD. im sure he was thinking how bad it was
when coming up with the plan but then that would make
it worse too as he went along with it. if it was a
bluff then sure but then can LAWful people lie, yes im
sure they can. he seriously was going to commit evil
so that is just as bad as if he actually did the act.

fallen would be good for a level so it forces you to
multiclass while he atones and being weaker while you
lose all those abilities will add much more to the
character than just atoning out of game which would be
a bit of a weak way out for a DM and make doing evil
something that has no consequence. also adds to the
whole "the temple is corrupting people" not even the
pinnicle of good is safe. then you can overcome it
like darth vader in "return of the jedi" but not so
evil evil or as long obviously.

whos a bad knight then.

what about the other characters. surley a god that
doesnt like evil won't be happy with the alliance with
evil, perhaps fighting along side evil for a time but
not an alliance... andrew. i forget the god of priest

A Friend

Yes - who is indeed a vewy vewy bad Knight?

 

[Zapak Vim]

I like what primitive screwhead said
also you should try the occasional solo session. in our campaign we lik it as it allows individual PCs to do the occasional cool solo thing without cutting into the main group sessions.,. BTW are you in wellington New Zealand? me too!

 

[Nightfall]

Free,

GR is Green Ronin. They made a couple different base classes (among them a non-evil but non-good Assassin), that are often used. Most people prefer the GR Shaman and Witch to most others. You can also find a base class Assassin in Thieves World Campaign Setting book. It's OGL based so it's not that hard to change stuff over to regular D&D.

 

[hamishspence]

Exalted deeds: yes, within limits, can work with evil guys

Book of Exalted Deeds: "The two groups have different but mutually compatible goals, and it is possible - within certain limits - for them to co-operate with each other. However, the good characters must not tolerate any evil acts commited by an evil ally during the time of their alliance, and can't simply turn a blind eye to such acts. And of course they must not turn on their erstwhile allies when victory is in sight, betraying the trust the drow placed in them. Such a situation is dangerous both physically and morally, but co-operating with evil creatures is not necessarily evil in itself"

This can apply to paladins as well, if it does not offend against Law (Paladin might have been banned by law from talking to evil guys)

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Offer a sincere apology and make a commitment not to do it again.

Breaking your word once is not a huge deal, even for a paladin.

 

[Nyeshet]

Okay, so you are a Paladin of Freedom - the CG variant in the UA, right? Why would you even have to consider keeping your word, if that is the case? You are CHAOTIC! not Lawful. You can - and probably do - lie, cheat, steal, etc if at any given moment you happen to think doing so is serving Good. Lie to an evil cult? Par for the course for CG. Break an oath made to an evil cult leader, eventually cheating him/her out of a sacrifice? Again, par for the course for CG. As a CG variant of a Paladin, you do what you feel is necessary, ignoring any laws, customs, oaths, etc that get in the way of accomplishing Good. The only thing forbidden is to aid an evil act, willingly associate in a positive manner with an evil being (associating in a negative manner, perhaps with an axe, being looked upon positively, of course), or enslaving a sentient being (as such would likely be against a Freedom-loving Chaotic alignment).

From the perspective of a CG Paladin, the only thing that might have been a problem is working with the evil cult. Not only was that associating with a group of evil beings - it was a very 'ends justify the means' attitude - quite Lawful. Thus, on both aspects of your alignment, you were slipping when you and your group decided to work with the lesser evil cult. A better plan would have been to frame each cult for an offence against the other, such that they fell upon each other. The weaker cult would be destroyed, but the stronger cult should have been weakened a little, especially right after the fight. You and your team could then move in to destroy it - or, if not able to do that, at least hamstring it for a time before you retreat. Later, before it has regained its strength to any significant degree, you could use guerrilla warfare against it to whittle it away until it is weak enough to take out in an all out attack. The odd assassin in your group (CN, I presume) could work well with you in this - especially if his Death Strike (at 30 ft) is the first attack of every guerrilla attack.

As it is, you need attonement for your Lawful and Evil leaning from willingly working with an evil cult on a 'ends justify the mean' basis.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I like what primitive screwhead said
also you should try the occasional solo session. in our campaign we lik it as it allows individual PCs to do the occasional cool solo thing without cutting into the main group sessions.,. BTW are you in wellington New Zealand? me too!

Yep, that's exactly where I'm living at the mo. Newtown specifically. My email is brendolfus@hotmail.com if you want to drop on by with an update of your game.

The solo session is a difficult one to do, mainly because the dm needs to be up to speed... I've run before but yeah, they can be difficult to pull off.

Thanks Nightfall, I'll nosy over GR next time I visit the FLGS, that no longer sells minis. :\

The problem with your exalted passage hamishspence is that my Knight tried to do all that, pretty much verbatim (and I don't own that book) but was twice offended by the lesser cultist allies. Once, when one of them struck a sacrificial prisoner with a lazy lightning bolt and twice, when the assassin broke a flag of truce to get in a cheap shot. The first was explained away but the second escalated to a point that ended the alliance then and there.

Basically the alliance with evil corrupted the good.

ha ha, um Nyeshet, are you replying to Dr. Awkward?

 

[Seeten]

Quick Note: Paladins of Freedom get Bluff as a class skill, so lying is one of their primary skills. It replaces Diplomacy

 

[Nightfall]

Nye,

He's a paladin of Freedom? Really? Cause I thought Free was just a regular ole paladin...

 

[Nyeshet]

Nye,

He's a paladin of Freedom? Really? Cause I thought Free was just a regular ole paladin...

My mistake. After reading all those posts, I confused Dr Awkward's paladin story with the poster's story.

As an ordinary Paladin, he should have lost his abilities when he first started working with the evil cult. As others have said, oathbreaking is the least of his worries. A basic atonement spell will take care of that so long as he is repentent, but the working with an evil cult and bargaining to help get a sentient sacrifice for their dark rite should require a major quest before the atonement spell will work upon him. A quest like . . . RttToEE perhaps? So, you go the rest of the module (or most of it, maybe?) as a Paladins stripped of his abilities. If you survive you regain your abilities (after an atonement is cast on you).