D&D 5E (2014) Paladin just committed murder - what should happen next?

[FrogReaver]

No. Those are also a human construct that we use to help us understand things.

Or numbers represent an objective truth of the world that humans discovered and starting referring to as numbers.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think this quote is fitting. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

 

[FrogReaver]

I guess what I mean is:

I'm not saying that everything is necessarily objective, just that the requirement of a human intelligence to perceive and communicate a concept doesn't make something subjective.

 

[Maxperson]

Or numbers represent an objective truth of the world that humans discovered and starting referring to as numbers.

Morality is not an objective truth. It requires intelligent life in order to exist, so it cannot be an objective truth created by light and rocks. Since it requires intelligent life to exist, intelligent life is what determines what is or is not moral, and intelligent life cannot agree on it.

 

[Maxperson]

I guess what I mean is:

I'm not saying that everything is necessarily objective, just that the requirement of a human intelligence to perceive and communicate a concept doesn't make something subjective.

I understand that. Rocks exist without humans, so they are an objective thing that exists outside of us. Morality is not like that. Atoms don't have morality for us to perceive. Nor do rocks, trees, light, or anything else outside of us.

 

[FrogReaver]

Morality is not an objective truth. It requires intelligent life in order to exist, so it cannot be an objective truth created by light and rocks. Since it requires intelligent life to exist, intelligent life is what determines what is or is not moral, and intelligent life cannot agree on it.

There's so much wrong with what you are saying. I don't really know where to begin.

1. Just because something can only be applied to intelligent life doesn't mean that it's not objective.
2. Suppose there is a God that created everything. Then that God objectively defines what is moral.
3. Or intelligent life discovers what is moral.
4. Lack of agreement over what is an objective truth doesn't mean an objective truth doesn't exist. Nor does agreement on an objective truth mean that what is being said is actually true.

 

[FrogReaver]

I understand that. Rocks exist without humans, so they are an objective thing that exists outside of us. Morality is not like that. Atoms don't have morality for us to perceive. Nor do rocks, trees, light, or anything else outside of us.

Just because morality is solely a quality of intelligent life doesn't mean that it's subjective.

The existence of morality depends on intelligent life to exist. That doesn't imply that intelligent life gets to subjectively define what is moral.

 

[FrogReaver]

I guess I will add this. Think of every atrocity in the world that you deem immoral. Using chemical weapons on civilians. The Holocaust. Slavery. Rape. Everything bad you can think of. Are you really saying that if society somehow managed to agree that those acts were good that would make all those acts moral?

 

[Maxperson]

1. Just because something can only be applied to intelligent life doesn't mean that it's not objective.
2. Suppose there is a God that created everything. Then that God objectively defines what is moral.
3. Or intelligent life discovers what is moral.
4. Lack of agreement over what is an objective truth doesn't mean an objective truth doesn't exist. Nor does agreement on an objective truth mean that what is being said is actually true.

You're seriously arguing that the big bang created morals?

 

[Maxperson]

I guess I will add this. Think of every atrocity in the world that you deem immoral. Using chemical weapons on civilians. The Holocaust. Slavery. Rape. Everything bad you can think of. Are you really saying that if society somehow managed to agree that those acts were good that would make all those acts moral?

We are the product of how we are raised. All you have to do to see the truth of this is look to extremists. They are raised to believe that killing everyone who doesn't agree with them is moral. To them it IS moral. To us, who are raised differently, it isn't. If everyone was raised to believe that those things were moral, they would be.