D&D 5E Paladin just committed murder - what should happen next?

[Man in the Funny Hat]

It is irrelevant whether the paladin really committed murder or not. That isn't the issue that matters. People will have differing opinions on whether they did or didn't because people have differing ideas of what various alignments and actions really mean, and what obligations paladins have above and beyond even all that. The issue that matters is whether the player knew the difference and whether what the player understood to be permissible agreed with what the DM understood to be permissible. The rules/rulings on that subject are the DM's to dictate. Not the books. Not the other players. Not an internet forum. If you haven't explained things about this to the players that YOU believe players at your table should know, it is not the players fault if they then violate your "double-secret alignment probation". It isn't their fault if they use their own solutions - even if those solutions are utterly self-serving and the players actually do know better. You left it up to them. The DM really doesn't get to say, "They SHOULD have known." Either it's black and white or it isn't. If it isn't then the DM is responsible for explaining where the line is at in all those shades of grey.

It seems clear the player did not know how YOU interpret that action. I mean, is the player in question waiting and wondering why you haven't ALREADY told them their character falls? If they knew that was going to be the consequence - and a paladin committing MURDER has OBVIOUS consequences - wouldn't they be expecting you to "throw the book at them" immediately? Of course they would. They knew it was the wrong thing to do and what the consequences would be, but did it anyway. If the player ISN'T just waiting in puzzlement wondering why you haven't lowered the boom already then isn't it most likely because they honestly thought this was a reasonable thing to do (even if it was a seemingly callous thing to place their own life in a position of higher importance to the world than that of the NPC)? Does the players assertion that they thought their contribution to the WORLD-saving adventure was more important than that NPC's life not hold any water with you? Why wouldn't they know that?

It can only be the DM's fault that the player would not know that. If a player is making that drastic a violation of their alignment you can't just let it happen. Players don't just spontaneously KNOW what the DM knows. They have to be TOLD. If you said NOTHING at that moment to the player then whether you knew it or not you effectively left it up to the player to make the decision about whether that action was right or wrong, allowable or unforgivable, practical (if nonetheless tragic and seemingly callous) or just cowardly. Alignment is there to GUIDE players to consistent and sensible actions for their characters. When players don't seem to be following that guide you don't just let it all go off the tracks. You slow down and find out what the problem is.

I say the player gets a pass. COMPLETELY. It is the DM's responsibility to be absolutely clear whether players are willingly taking on consequences of such actions, or simply haven't been told what your rules are on such things. If you fail to tell them - both before such things ever come up in the game, and again at the moment they do come up in the game - then BY YOUR SILENCE you leave it to them to decide, even if their decision utterly disregards what you wanted or expected, or what the rules say, or what any internet forum says. Players don't have ESP. Don't punish them in-game for not having it. Don't punish them for resorting to their own ideas of what their PC's may/should or may not/should not do when you don't correct them when they obviously take actions counter to what you expect.

 

[Bawylie]

I tend to agree, however, as long as the punishment fits the genre IMO. There's plenty of slapstick murderhobo appropriate punishments for a paladin that just hands over someone under his protection.

He gets a reputation!

“Bravely ran Sir Robin,
Sir Robin ran away!
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled!”

 

[FrogReaver]

He gets a reputation!

“Bravely ran Sir Robin,
Sir Robin ran away!
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled!”

LOL. All the towns people could simply refuse to ever be saved by him. They'd argue that their fate in whatever predicament they were in was better than in the dragons belly he'd feed them to.

 

[jgsugden]

Look at his Oath and evaluate whether he broke the Oath.

THEN TELL A GOOD STORY WITH THE PLAYER.

If the character is to be punished, make it rewarding for the player. Give them a fun story that they control that develops from the incident. Give them a chance to raise their PC from the ashes of their vow, or to turn their back on it in frustration.

If the character is not breaking their vow and is not to be punished, introduce him to someone that does not think that is right. Or show them someone who understands why the paladin made that choice, but still lost everything when the dragon took the man. Turn it into a good story element that makes that an iconic, character shaping moment... and consider whether it is something to echo later on and see if the paladin makes the same choice.

Other things to consider: Do his God and his patron see the act the same way? Would the warlock patron see this as a way to lure the paladin away from his God? What does the dragon think of a paladin that would rather sacrifice someone than defend them? What does the paladin reveal about the event?

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Take the character sheet off the player, erase the "G" or "N" in the alignment field, write "E", then hand the character sheet back to the player.

Now let the player play the internal conflict (if any) generated while you and the player together work out the external consequences (which, if there were no witnesses, might be "none"). After that, the player and the rest of the table can play out the in-party consequences.

"Hey, Bombaatta, last time we saw you, you was flyin' to town with an injured bloke. Now we's back in town, his wife says 'e didn't get here. What gives, eh?"

 

[Wiseblood]

If I were a cosmic being and one of my paladins did that, I would...inform him that you cannot have two masters. Choose the dragon or choose me.

 

[Celebrim]

So, remember that scene in 'Avenger's Endgame' where two of the characters - two impure characters - fought to ensure that they would be the one sacrificed that the other would live?

Or put it this way, "What would Captain America do?"

Why is this even a question? Captain America would have said "No."

The character sacrificed another person's life to save himself. In no morality system is that good. That's at best neutral. And it was willing. And it was a bargain with an evil creature. The character is no longer fit to be a Paladin.

Punishable by loss of Paladinhood. Allow the player to make another character or somehow transform the existing character into something more suitable to what the player wants to play, but suggest to the player that if he's motivated by primarily by self-preservation, then he should play a neutral character of some such.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

These threads are a great reminder of why I don’t play with strangers anymore.

 

[Charlaquin]

To an extent I agree with the folks saying it depends on the paladin’s oath. But more importantly, I think this is something you should talk about with the players in your game, not random people on the internet.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

During our session tonight, the party's paladin got in trouble. He was carrying an injured NPC to safety. Unfortunately, an adult dragon cornered him.
"Give me that man, and you can live. I hunger" it said. I had hoped he would stare it down with a bit of god-fuelled determination.

Did the player or character know that staring it down was even an option? An adult dragon is pretty close to an impossible opponent both in terms of intimidation and combat unless you're high tier.
Otherwise, it would just have looked like the DM dropped an impossible choice on the player: Either your character dies, or you break your oath.
Where did the dragon come from? Was it one that they were trying to escape from previous interactions or similar, or did a random Adult Dragon just show up the threaten a level 7 character? Was the rest of the party close enough that the dragon might be threatening the paladin with their deaths as well?

"OK" Said the paladin, and the dragon flew off with the screaming man.
The player admitted, 'I wanted to live'. He figured he should live to fight another day (and continue on the world-saving adventure the party are part way through).
I don't want to punish the player so much that he drops out of the game, but I think there have to be repercussions (ours is not a slapstick murderhobo game).
He is 7th level with a level of warlock (! I know...)

OK. I'm not seeing any murder committed by the paladin. As others have asked: what is their actual oath?
It doesn't sound like an easy choice, but I can see some paladin archetypes making the choice to save the world at the cost of one life without breaking that oath.

How would you handle this. If he becomes an oathbreaker, does that replace his previous paladin levels, so he becomes a 7th level oathbreaker?
Is that too punishing?
If he becomes an oathbreaker, I plan to talk to him about taking a vow to find a way back into his gods good graces, such as by returning to slay the dragon AND find resurrection for the dead man.

OK. Lot of talk about "becoming an oathbreaker" that seems to be talking about the paladin subclass. I think you need to think about that a bit:
Becoming an Oathbreaker is not generally what happens if a paladin slips a bit, or makes a bad choice. Oathbreaker is not even what happens if the paladin falls to the point that they lose their oath-given abilities.
An Oathbreaker Paladin is one who has not only willingly and unrepentantly broken their oath, but also rejected the concept of being bound by any oaths or rules of behaviour. - often including thing like party loyalty and suchlike. There is a reason that its almost exclusively for NPCs.

As others have said: talk to the players. If nothing else it may appear to them that you just forced them into a no-win, all-lose scenario, so you may need to reassure them that you weren't just deliberately trying to stew them over.