Paladin should kill the Warlord and take his stuff!

[Gloombunny]

Well, so much for this thread.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[rounser]

Good grief man. Did you have this same issue with the Bard's inspire courage? With the Paladin's aura of courage?

With the bard, he's generally singing a song or performing a "once more unto the breach" spiel. The warlord is sounding a lot more nuts and bolts tactical than that, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.

The Paladin is divine-favoured magicked up mumbo jumbo, so that can be handwaved.

BTW, I don't think the bard archetype works in a dungeon either. The 1E bard, sure, but it all got stuffed up by 2E when it got turned into a minstrel and lutes-in-a-dungeon, IMO.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

No primarily NPC class deserves to be in the PHB.

I think plenty of the 3.x classes were primarily NPC classes

Seriously, I think 3.x's lack of leader classes was a big weakness. I would rather have a properly playtested core rules class than some poorly playtested splatbook "paragon path".

Okay, so we're out of "Warlord as White Raven" territory and back into "Warlord as Sergeant" territory, then?

Umm.... if you say so. Maybe a bandit lord is something like a sergeant, except he's missing the military experience and training. Merlin was more like a staff officer.

 

[Zamkaizer]

Rounser, your Infuriating Misrepresentation Technique is astounding!

 

[rounser]

Where did you get this idea that the other party members don't respect the Warlord?

Where did you get this idea that the other party members respect the "warlord"? He gets respect because he took a class?

 

[rounser]

Rounser, your Infuriating Misrepresentation Technique is astounding!

We should turn it into a class! The crunch roxxors!

Every party's got a dissenter, so it fits! We could call it Devil's Advocate, even though he doesn't work for the Vatican and stuff. We can handwave all that.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Where did you get this idea that the other party members respect the "warlord"? He gets respect because he took a class?

He'll get respect if he's good at it. A green, wet-behind-the-ears leader generally has to earn the respect of his peers, pretty much the same way any new adventurer or party member has to. Giving good suggestions before or during combat is a good way

We should turn it into a class! The crunch roxxors!

There's a class like that in Star Wars!

 

[rounser]

He'll get respect if he's good at it.

No, he'll get respect when people decide to roleplay it that way.

I'll admit that this chasm is already opened up. You can play a 25 intelligence wizard as an intellectual pigmy, or have your 18 wisdom cleric do the equivalent of sticking a fork in the toaster.

(A pet idea of mine is to seperate magical and divine aptitude from mental attributes so that crunch and roleplaying have more of a chinese wall between them, but that's neither here nor there.)

 

[Zaruthustran]

Where did you get this idea that the other party members respect the "warlord"? He gets respect because he took a class?

Well, yes. Of course. If a person says "I've dedicated my career to being an excellent military strategist. We're in a fight. Will you listen to my advice?" then a reasonable person will respond with "YES!"

It's the same reason why I respect a carpenter on matters of woodworking.

With the bard, he's generally singing a song or performing a "once more unto the breach" spiel. The warlord is sounding a lot more nuts and bolts tactical than that, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.

I don't understand how a class named bard singing "once more into the breach" is okay with you, but a class named warlord growling "once more into the breach" is a disaster.

However, I'm glad to hear that you admit we don't know the details of the warlord's abilities and powers, and that you're prepared to change your mind if the reality of 4E differs from your assumptions. None of us know the details, really, which I guess makes this whole argument pretty silly.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Seriously. It seems to me that the Paladin would make an effective 'leader', without requireing a fancy new class called warlord. The paladin could have the leadership abilities, aura's, boosts,etc. Just remove paladin spellcasting and add in everything else from the warlord and what you already have for the paladin.

I dunno, just something about the paladin screams 'LEADER'.

No. Kill the Cleric and take his stuff, sure. Two Divine Leaders though? Yuck. You've got to have god on your side to win or get healed? No thanks. Seriously unsure why Cleric and Paladin are separate classes at all at this stage. I guess to give Divine Defender, but that's about the only possible reason.