Breakstone
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Fall on your sword and roll up a new character?
Paladins at dinner parties: Polite or Truthful?
- Thread starter Jeph
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Oni
First Post
If Paladins couldn't lie then there probably wouldn't be very many Paladins.
For Instance.
King: "Is not my Queen the most beautiful of women?" (points toward the queen who looks like a cross between Rosanne Barr and Broom Hilda).
Paladin: "Um.....uh...."
Next Scene: Execution of a Noble and Honest Paladin.
For Instance.
King: "Is not my Queen the most beautiful of women?" (points toward the queen who looks like a cross between Rosanne Barr and Broom Hilda).
Paladin: "Um.....uh...."
Next Scene: Execution of a Noble and Honest Paladin.
Thorntangle
First Post
I think this would fall under the category of Diplomacy. Diplomacy definition2 of M-W is: Skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility. Skillful verbal gymnastics and tactful evasion (just like the previous poster said) are the hallmark of the politician and the lawfully good polite.
Just because you're a certain alignment doesn't mean you have to act 100% to the dot like that all the time. A lawful good character can act lawful neutral at times just like a neutral character can act good or evil depending on the situation. Lawful good doesn't mean saintly, heck even saints did some bad things. Likewise, neutral doesn't mean having no opinion or lacking the ability to take sides. If he/she thinks it is for the good of the overall population and preserves order in the land, then a paladin should be able to burn down an entire village.
But yes, Darklance, I would agree that a paladin would try to find a better solution. If he/she couldn't, however, then I don't see why some "lawful neutral/evil" behavior shouldn't be allowed.
I'm in the camp that Druids are not eco-friendly good guys all the time either, so...
I'm in the camp that Druids are not eco-friendly good guys all the time either, so...
Last edited:
BiggusGeekus@Work
Community Supporter
Heh! Better yet:
SORCORESS: Does this Robe of the Arch-Magi make me look fat?
PALADIN: Errrr....
SORCORESS: Does this Robe of the Arch-Magi make me look fat?
PALADIN: Errrr....
Wicht
Hero
Sir Edgar said:
By the book, a paladin that knowingly engages in Lawful Evil behavior, no matter the intentions, loses his abilities.
So yeah, its allowed, but with consequences.
Speaking as a person who truly believes honesty is ALWAYS the best policy, I am not sure what would be wrong with tactfully admitting the dinner was not as pleasant as the company.
I'd say that would have to be in the case of repeat offenses or something really really terrible like enjoying killing an entire group of peasants.
Anyhow, if a paladin thinks that he was doing good by burning down an entire village to follow the orders of his king and preserve peace in the land, then so be it. If the gods judge otherwise, then he could lose his status as a paladin. After all, his powers are granted by the gods.
But everyone does things differently in their game.
Anyhow, if a paladin thinks that he was doing good by burning down an entire village to follow the orders of his king and preserve peace in the land, then so be it. If the gods judge otherwise, then he could lose his status as a paladin. After all, his powers are granted by the gods.
But everyone does things differently in their game.
Celebrim
Legend
You can definately tell that we don't have a lawful culture anymore.
Nifft and Mr. Fidget are correct. The Paladin doesn't lie, nor is he insulting (which would be just as bad). The Paladin is tactful. If he cannot be tactful, he tries to cover his failing with humility and wit so as to minimize the insult he inflicts through his lack of social skill. This is an artform that he has been learning since birth, and one he values as much as he values skill with a sword.
Since oth Nifft and Mr. Fidget have addressed some of the many ways that the good Paladin could respond at a dinner party, I'll address Oni's challenge.
Paladin: "It is as my Lord has said."
or
Paladin: "I bow to my Lord's superior taste and judgement."
or (by addressing the nature of beauty)
Paladin: "Her soul is as radiant as an angel my Lord, and her precence is a blessing to all around her."
or (by deflection with wit)
Paladin: "My Lord, question a chaste man about the beauty of women, and he shall always answer 'Yes'. I'm afraid therefore my opinion on the matter is valueless."
Or any number of other things. If the King has any value at all, he recognizes tact when he sees it and if he values his servant doesn't press the matter. If the King really thinks his wife is beautiful, perhaps he believes that the Paladin idolizes some other woman who he wishes to refrains from snubbing. A similar event occurs in LotR's when Gimli challenges Eomer to a duel if he will not swear that Galadriel is the most lovely of all women. Note how each tactfully averts the duel at various points in thier relationship.
I consider the ability to pass such 'tests' to be the mark of RP quality in Paladin player. If you can't pass them, then you probably have no business being a Paladin.
One of my favorite examples in a real campaign, concerned a Paladin speaking to a 1st edition Barbarian.
Paladin: "I am a servant of Mystra."
Barbarian: <skeptically> "Mystra. Who's she?"
Paladin: "Why she is the Goddess of M...Many Wonderful Things."
Nifft and Mr. Fidget are correct. The Paladin doesn't lie, nor is he insulting (which would be just as bad). The Paladin is tactful. If he cannot be tactful, he tries to cover his failing with humility and wit so as to minimize the insult he inflicts through his lack of social skill. This is an artform that he has been learning since birth, and one he values as much as he values skill with a sword.
Since oth Nifft and Mr. Fidget have addressed some of the many ways that the good Paladin could respond at a dinner party, I'll address Oni's challenge.
Paladin: "It is as my Lord has said."
or
Paladin: "I bow to my Lord's superior taste and judgement."
or (by addressing the nature of beauty)
Paladin: "Her soul is as radiant as an angel my Lord, and her precence is a blessing to all around her."
or (by deflection with wit)
Paladin: "My Lord, question a chaste man about the beauty of women, and he shall always answer 'Yes'. I'm afraid therefore my opinion on the matter is valueless."
Or any number of other things. If the King has any value at all, he recognizes tact when he sees it and if he values his servant doesn't press the matter. If the King really thinks his wife is beautiful, perhaps he believes that the Paladin idolizes some other woman who he wishes to refrains from snubbing. A similar event occurs in LotR's when Gimli challenges Eomer to a duel if he will not swear that Galadriel is the most lovely of all women. Note how each tactfully averts the duel at various points in thier relationship.
I consider the ability to pass such 'tests' to be the mark of RP quality in Paladin player. If you can't pass them, then you probably have no business being a Paladin.
One of my favorite examples in a real campaign, concerned a Paladin speaking to a 1st edition Barbarian.
Paladin: "I am a servant of Mystra."
Barbarian: <skeptically> "Mystra. Who's she?"
Paladin: "Why she is the Goddess of M...Many Wonderful Things."
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