D&D 4E Paladins - The first 4e class to fail

[Herschel]

They both suck, that's why I play a Swordmage.

Look at it this way: A defender's role is not to negate damage, but to minimize cumulative damage. This can be done a number of ways.

1. Take the attack instead of squishier cohort.

2. Block the enemy from getting to the back.

3. Negate damage taken either by Aegis or healing.

4. Damage said baddie more and kill them quicker, there by negating attacks.

5. Nerf baddie's attacks.

6.........etc...........

There's more than one way to eat an apple and there's more than one way to be a good defender.

 

[Enforcer]

I've only hit level 3 with my Strength Paladin after last night's session, but I've found him to be effective. My party is as follows:

• Me: human paladin of Soleth (think Raven Queen, but in Goodman Games' Aereth)
• eladrin swordmage
• half-elf cleric
• half-elf ranger
• human warlock

Last night we rocked pretty hard through the first Punjar adventure, and my guy did pretty well. With an 18 Str (after human racial) and a +1 magic bastard sword I hit pretty often, especially with Valiant Strike. I took Action Surge for use with my daily (and sometimes my encounter attack), so I almost always hit with those.

Damage wise, I do quite well for a Defender. 1d10+5 (+7 with Holy Strike vs. marked creatures), and I have a 21 AC, plus the best all-around defenses of the party—I'm hard to hurt. And I have Toughness. So while the swordmage has a better marking power (Aegis of Shielding negates 8hp of damage for the rest of us, compared to my piddly 4 points of radiant), I'm often the one marking the big bad of each fight simply because I get hit way less often (swordmage's AC is only 18).

Last night, as we finished up the module, the swordmage and I would actually play tag with the final bad guy, erasing each other's mark when the other guy needed a break from getting attacked. And since the final guy was vulnerable to radiant, I was really laying down the damage, equal to our strikers. And the -2 to hit that the guy took when he sometimes chose to bother someone else ended up with misses often enough to make my marks worthwhile (plus again, radiant vulnerability).

Considering that I'm a) hard to kill, b) can get the most dangerous guy in the fight to focus on me, usually, and c) can heal myself and allies, I think I'm doing well. Not amazing, but well. I like this character.

Looking ahead, I think I will have a problem with stickiness, so I'm going to do some Fighter multiclassing (plus, it sucks for Strength Paladins at a few levels for power choice right now), but so far I'm really having fun with this guy.

 

[Herschel]

... I'm often the one marking the big bad of each fight simply because I get hit way less often (swordmage's AC is only 18).

How is the Shielding Swormage's AC only 18?!?!?!?!?! At first level the minimum should be 19.

(10 base +4 Int, +2 Leather, +3 warding)

 

[Obryn]

Combat Superiority denies the enmies movement if the OA hits. With a +1 to hit plus Wisdom bonus and a +3 weapon, your looking at approx +9/10 to hit at first level. Kinda nice, isn't it.
Compare that to say a max +6 damage guaranteed from a Straladin (unless dragonborn and you want to gimp on everything else) and a
+ 7 to hit (with an 18 str and +3 weapon),..AND you don't deny the movement if you hit.

Just a quick note - the Fighter doesn't get his Wisdom bonus to the Combat Challenge attack roll. It's not an opportunity attack, it's a special class ability that works as an immediate interrupt.

-O

 

[Enforcer]

How is the Shielding Swormage's AC only 18?!?!?!?!?! At first level the minimum should be 19.

(10 base +4 Int, +2 Leather, +3 warding)

Hah! Speak of the devil, this post from our Epic Words campaign blog:

In other news... some issues with the D&D Character Builder had my AC way too low. It should have been 21, not 18. Which means that a lot of those close hits would have missed and I would have still been standing at the end of the combat.

Guess my Paladin isn't so badass after all.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Yeah, you should always double check the math from the character builder... What probably happened is that the Character Builder calculated his actual AC, and then put "Aegis bonus: +3 to AC when you have a free hand" in the class features section. It might not consider it to be part of your of your AC as it's a situational bonus.

 

[Nail]

(...I've heard nothing but Bad about the character builder. Ugg.)

 

[Obryn]

Yeah, you should always double check the math from the character builder... What probably happened is that the Character Builder calculated his actual AC, and then put "Aegis bonus: +3 to AC when you have a free hand" in the class features section. It might not consider it to be part of your of your AC as it's a situational bonus.

On my party's swordmage, it's calculated in right from the start.

I'd check the equipment page and make sure the sword's equipped, and that it's equipped as a 1-handed weapon.

-O

 

[Herschel]

I forked a thread and said teh same thing, I guess I should have left it in here. Cest La Vie.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Yet another unsaid difference between the paladins and the fighters mark is how its given out.

The fighter has to actually take a swing at someone to mark them, whereas the paladin uses a minor action. This small difference allows the paladin to take a move, swing at a minion, and then mark a second more important bad guy if in melee range. The fighter couldn't lock down that second guy without using an attack that hit two folks.

Alternately the paladin can swing at a target he starts next to, then move to someone within move range, then challenge the new target.

Different...not better or worse.

DS