Palemaster Gish?

[Dandu]

Could you guys enlighten me on Conjuration and why its a must have?

1. Battlefield Control
2. Utility (including Teleport)
3. Buffing
4. Debuffing
5. Summons (including undead)
6. Damage

 

[foggman]

Hmm so which other school would you suggest dropping instead? Illusion does seem pretty important if I want to melee. Do you think the Illusion spells will give me enough protection that I can drop Abjuration instead? I guess my biggest loss would be dispel magic in that case?

I kinda want to keep Evocation to blow crap up from point blank range at times. And Transmutation gives me some of those killer spells like Tenser's Transformation and Haste.

 

[Dandu]

Conjuration has the Orb series and Melf's Unicorn Arrow, which blast much better than Evocation spells.

Conjuration even has AoE damage, in the form of spells such as Cloudkill and Acid Breath.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Do you think the Illusion spells will give me enough protection that I can drop Abjuration instead? I guess my biggest loss would be dispel magic in that case?

Basically. I've often wanted to drop Abjuration as a specialist wizard, only to backtrack because I didn't want to lose the ability to dispel. Of course, Abjuration has other awesome spells, and you'll want it if you're going into Abjurant Champion, which is one of the best fighter/mage prestige classes in the game.

That said, there's a feat in some dragon magazine (I just look for it on crystalkeep) that lets you choose 3 spells from a prohibited school and add them back to your spell list / spells known. They can be higherl evel spells than you can currently cast if you want, too. So, if you were to drop Abjuration, you could just pick up that feat. I'd recommend Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic for two of the choices. For the third, you could load up on more dispelling with Arcane Turmoil from C.Mage (2nd level, targeted dispel option only, and if the target is a caster, will save or lose one of his highest level spell slots) or perhaps choose Antimagic Field to make yourself a nightmare to "smart" wizards that chose to never lose a caster level with multiclassing.

You could also specialize in Divination and only need 1 banned school. Div has plenty of good spells to support you with the bonus spell/level, the only reason to be a necromancer is if there's some alternate class feature from Unearthed Arcana or Master Specialist class feature for Necromancers that you really liked.

 

[Jhaelen]

Hmm so which other school would you suggest dropping instead? Illusion does seem pretty important if I want to melee. Do you think the Illusion spells will give me enough protection that I can drop Abjuration instead? I guess my biggest loss would be dispel magic in that case?

Necromancy! Oh, wait...

Abjuration is at least the second best (after conjuration) if not the best school, imho. So, you'd make a big mistake if you dropped it.

Illusion has few good spells, but they're spells you usually don't want to miss.

If you have conjuration there is almost nothing you'll want from evocation.

Transformation has lots of nice spells, but few that are must-have. Maybe that'll work for you.

 

[foggman]

Yah now that I've been looking at all the spells in the spell compendium and such, I think dropping evocation might be the way to go. There do seem to be a whole lot of evocation like spells in conjuration, and heck they might even fit the flavor of my character better with all the acid stuff and all.

 

[Dandu]

Transformation has lots of nice spells, but few that are must-have. Maybe that'll work for you.

1. It's called Transmutation.
2. Shapechange.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

1. It's called Transmutation.
2. Shapechange.

Transmutation has almost all of the physical buffing spells, not just Shapechange, but also low level staples like Enlarge Person.

OP, I would not drop Transmutation if you want to stick to your character concept. Transmutation also has group buff spells, for any urndead minions you might have. I'd say in your case it may even be more important than Conjuration (not that Conjuration still isn't REALLY good, too).

 

[foggman]

Alright so I have some pretty good ideas on what to do for spells now without evocation. Some of the replacements from Conjuration I'm considering are below. I don't have any bonus to ranged touch attacks (10 dex) so I'm shying away a bit from the orb spells and rays and such.

Kelgore's Firebolt
Kelgore's Grave Mist
Benign Transposition
Corrosive Grasp
Wall of Smoke
Acid Breath

I'm still really confused about how to redue my talents though. Specifically what should I take for the first three talents I get at level 1 for being a Fighter now? One of them needs to be a Fighter feat. I was considering Combat Expertise and Improved Trip since I'm using a scythe? Is that worthwhile? I was thinking maybe Extend Spell, though I'm not a huge fan of metamagic stuff. I can't seem to find much that is terribly appealing or even accessible for a gish at the first level. There are of course feats that allow you to cast in armor, but I'll eventually get that anyway from either the Spellsword level or the Undead Armor affinity feature in the palemaster class.

 

[foggman]

Ok so here is my revised character now.

Human 1 Fighter / 4 Wizard (Necromancer) (prohibited schools evocation/enchantment)

Str 18
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 16 +1 at level 4 (will probably continue to add stat points here)
Wis 10
Cha 10

Weapons: Scythe for tripping or
Scimitar + Shield + Keen Weapon spell for extra AC and crits
Armor: for role playing purposes I'm saying my character has undead armor
that acts as a normal chain mail +4 AC basically

Feats:
Weapon Expertise
Improved Trip
Extend Spell
Combat Casting - Still looking for a replacement for this, although
nothing seems especially appealing. Ideas?
Most likely Spontaneous Divination for wizard bonus feat next level.

Spells:
1st level:
Chill Touch
Mage Armor
True Strike
Kelgore's Firebolt
Enlarge Person
Expeditious Retreat
Blade of Blood
Benign Transposition

2nd level:
Command Undead
Bulls Strength
Web
Bonefiddle
Kelgore's Grave Mist

Next level: Vampiric Touch, Displacement

Thoughts??