Parrying, modifying combat

[genshou]

Genshou allow me to make some comparisons:
For a warrior class your 2 + half the character’s Base Attack Bonus is exactly the same as my "good save" parry which warriors (including monks) get. when maxed +12 and +12
Whereas those with medium BAB in your method who get "poor save" in my system get +3 more then mine when maxed: yours get +9 mine get +6
And those with poor BAB in your method also get "poor save" in my system get +1 more. when maxed: yours +7 mine +6
hmmmmm I really don't see why a wizard/sorcerer should be worse at parrying a weapon then a cleric or rogue it be the one side of combat they'd pick up. The other side of basing it off BAB that I don't like is that a first level wizard is as good at parrying as a fighter.

True that it scales the same as the "good save" bonus; I hadn't realized that. But basing off of BaB seems to fit to me; a cleric is still gonna be better at parrying than a wizard, since parrying involves not only blocking your opponent's attacks, but also finding ways to keep your opponent threatened so they can only make attacks that are more easily parried. I don't know what to say about the characters having the same bonus at 1st-level except this... in standard D&D they have the same base AC, number of attacks,
and almost the same base attack bonus (a difference of 1). So I guess they just haven't had enough combat training for anyone to really shine in combat yet.

Geenshou I'm very curious about how many parry's you allow in a round? And furthermore how much have you found your system to effect the amount Characters get hit? Do you modify for size or different kinds of attacks?

Actually, I failed to point out thus far that I've tested this system in both standard HP systems and vitality/wounds systems, and it works much better in the latter. I've considered how size affects parrying, but I've yet to test having weapon size affect parrying ability. Using a dagger against a greatsword should grant attack roll bonuses/penalties to the attacker, I think. I'd say a +1/-1 or +2/-2 for each size category of difference between weapons. Combatant sizes shouldn't factor in, though; they are already calculated in the attack/AC system. Characters tend to be hit less with parrying bonuses, but in vitality/wounds systems armor provides DR against wound damage, so it's less of a problem. High-magic games tend to lead to less hits anyway, so these rules only add insult to injury. It's less of a problem in swashbuckling games, where humanoid-on-humanoid fights are so crucial.

As for regular hp games, I think using half of my bonuses is appropriate. So, 1 + one-quarter BaB (rounded down). Precise Parry and Exceptional Parry would grant bonuses one point lower. That way, unarmored characters aren't entirely vulnerable, and characters with armor still have an advantage over lower-level opponents with the same quality armor.

Since a character's parrying ability is reflected by an AC bonus, it applies each time they are attacked in a round. The Exceptional Parry feat, however, can only be used to deflect a successful attack once per round per +2 Dex bonus (minimum once). So, for most high-level characters with no enhancement bonus to Dex, that's only two or three times per round. And we're talking someone of 11+ level with a good Dex bonus, so tha seems reasonable to me.

 

[LostSoul]

Does anybody reduce AC when adding a parry roll? Is what I presented above a workable system? I do appreciate other methods, it helps give me perspective and ideas but some specific critiquing would really help.
I think my AC reduction of -5 goes perhaps a little to far, but what sounds logical?

Hmm... what kinds of modifiers affect the save? Attack scores usually far exceed saves, so I could see high-damage-output monsters becoming a bigger threat. It'll be hard for a 7th level fighter to save against a Hill Giant's +16 attack if he's just got the base +5 save; and since the fighter's AC is 5 points lower, that Hill Giant can splat him by moving some points into Power Attack.

This could be a feature of the system, however.

One thing I like about parry systems is that they tend to help get rid of some of the silliness that comes out of hit points. If you use a parry roll to reflect what hit points do in the current system, you won't have to have massive amounts of hit points. I think this might make combat more lethal (if a goblin needs a 20 to hit you, in either system, it's more dangerous if you've only got 14 hit points).

You might want to have a look at Ken Hood's Grim & Gritty System. It uses a Defense roll instead of a parry roll, but I imagine it's the same thing. You might be able to get some ideas from it. (Wherever it is on the inta-web.)

 

[magic_gathering2001]

1 Sheilds still apply to "AC"
2 It was a no magic campain but these guides should work
Enhancement rovides DR Bonus/Bonus-1 Except shields which are normal
Enhancement DR is applied before general resistance and stacks with DR/-
3 your right Barbarians have a medium while not raging
4 Parry also applies half for touch attacks
5 yes Half Plate has a DEX penalty of -8
This apples to their dexterity score directly like gloves of dexterety -8

 

[genshou]

Does anybody reduce AC when adding a parry roll? Is what I presented above a workable system? I do appreciate other methods, it helps give me perspective and ideas but some specific critiquing would really help.
I think my AC reduction of -5 goes perhaps a little to far, but what sounds logical?

I actually like the -5. Since your opposed roll system requires they first overcome your parry roll and THEN the Armor Class, it can make hits less frequent if the numbers are lined up just right between your parrying ability and your actual armor class. Of course, having an added defense means that lowering the AC is a balancing factor. I do have one problem with it, though. Once a character has used up all their parries for the round, do they still use the AC - 5? That would make hits far more common after someone has used up all their parrying for the round, which may or may not be a good thing where game mechanics and player/GM enjoyability of the game are concerned...

I'd recommend that the -5 AC penalty only applies when the parrying roll is being used. That way, parrying isn't overpowered, but a character isn't royally screwed anytime they aren't using their parry.