Parties screwed without an Int-based PC?

[Nail]

Under your basic concept an Arcanist can tell that 20 specific items in a given area are magical, but any thud can roll a sword around in his hands and not only determine that it's magical, but every little thing about its capabilities.

I'm just reading what it says in the PH. That system for identifying magic items is no more mine than yours. As you said initially, we're just doing a strict RAW interpretation here, nothing more.

FWIW, the PH1 also says that the DM may make identifying magic items more difficult if they wish. So go nuts.

 

[KarinsDad]

Sure. No land-speed records need be set here.

However, it's not clear how long it takes a PC to determine the properties of a non-magical item, right?

Correct. Given that this is house rules territory, the DM can make it as time consuming as he deems fair. I just find it unfair to make it less time than determining the properties of a magic item.

 

[LittleFuzzy]

Are we to believe that an unskilled person can do more than someone who is trained in such a complex skill, simply because it occurs during a short rest? The detection of magic takes long enough that it can't reasonably be performed during combat, as it is.

Yes. The section regarding identifying magic items in the Equipment chapter in PHB1 makes that explicitly clear. No Arcane skill is required to identify "standard" magic items. It does suggest that non-standard items like artifacts, cursed items and presumably other "special" magics might require Arcana checks, or even side-quests to identify.

 

[Nail]

So....

This thread started with the question "Are parties screwed without an Int-based PC (to find magic items)?" It seems pretty clear the answer can be whatever to DM likes, but....by the Rules As Written, the answer to the questin is:

"Nope. They can find magic items just fine."

 

[KarinsDad]

So....

This thread started with the question "Are parties screwed without an Int-based PC (to find magic items)?" It seems pretty clear the answer can be whatever to DM likes, but....by the Rules As Written, the answer to the questin is:

"Nope. They can find magic items just fine."

How did you come to that conclusion?

Maybe by RAI, but not by RAW. By RAW, one could have an entire room full of objects and unless the DM allows them to use the Identify rules to Detect, they are "screwed".

The Identify rules state nothing about finding the items, just how to Identify them. Finding them without using Detect Magic is totally within DM decision territory.

 

[Akaiku]

Default assumption is that you find x treasure as you level. You can identify things you find by spending short rest time. The party is screwed if the gm says so, just as always.

 

[Nail]

By RAW, one could have an entire room full of objects and unless the DM allows them to use the Identify rules to Detect, they are "screwed".

By RAW, do you need to detect whether the item is magical before you can determine its magical properties?

 

[Herschel]

So....

This thread started with the question "Are parties screwed without an Int-based PC (to find magic items)?" It seems pretty clear the answer can be whatever to DM likes, but....by the Rules As Written, the answer to the questin is:

"Nope. They can find magic items just fine."

Actually,you are completely and utterly wrong without your addendum. Whether or not they can find magic items won't matter one iota in well designed skill challenges.

 

[insanogeddon]

waaaaRz the b.. alance ?

Surely if the DM needs to mother lacking players with well designed skill challenges he to be fair to others with other lackings and should do the same across the board?
eg:
Everyone is never suprised due to well designed encounters where native fauna gives hints to the party, Blowing your dailies on squirrels is never an issue cause the DM designs encounters such that you will suceed anyway etc etc
Its a slipery slope.

The essence of 4th ed is balance. Its the boon we traded dnds soul for. Its pretty unbalancing as a DM not punishing those that cannot detect magic but punishing all other oversites in build or party make up.

 

[KarinsDad]

By RAW, do you need to detect whether the item is magical before you can determine its magical properties?

RAW does not state one way or the other.

So, the DM can rule either way.

You cannot assume one way or the other and claim it is RAW.