Party Levels, CR, and Those Wacky Stats!

[Xarlen]

But he's not going to get all magically tricked out like that.

At most, a +1 Morning star, No spells on him, and instead some other misc stuff via the Evil Bad Thing he's holding. Which could mean a Lot of things. Potential spells, but nothing major. His level would be Rg1/Ftr3 or 4. And he'll be alone.

And by this point, the party should have leveled up to 2nd level. And the paladin will have his Masterwork sword by this point.

Besides, this has to do a lot with the plot.

 

[Xarlen]

THe info on my campaign is Here.

 

[kigmatzomat]

My 1st party consists of 4 PCs, and an NPC mage.
....
Should I treat their level for CR basing as 2nd level?
They're certainly more powerful then a 25 point buy party of 4 pcs.
How do I handle giving them xp, then, at a rate of a 1st level party, while still making it more Challanging because they've definetly got some kickass stats?

I'd definitely start off with normal CR1 encounters. Not so much because you expect it to seriously challenge them, but so the party can work out the kinks of working together. Training wheel encounters.

The typical rule is that a party should be able to have 4 encounters of their CL in a 24 hour span and survive, albeit exhausted and drained. So about 3 or 4 fights in, after they've got some experience together, hit them with 4 CR1s in 24 hours. On the other side of it are they drained? How close?

Personally, I've never run a point buy game so I can't give any exact advice. I do run a 6 player +2NPC game, so I understand your problems. I calculate what CR the party is and subtract 2 steps (4CR) to determine the standard ECL. 4 PC + 1 NPC isn't enough to jump to a higher ECL though. Which is where you use the ECL/CR flex.

Remember that any creatures with a total CR 3 less than the BBEG's CR do not increase the ECL of the encounter.
Meaning that the CR5 rogue3/fighter2 could have a CR1 fighter1 and 2x CR 1/2 warrior1s and would still be ECL5, a moderate challenge to 3rd level PCs or a very straining one for 2nd level PCs.

As far as XP awards, you are running a heroic game. You expect them to walk through many common opponents. So what if they level quickly? They are heroes, right? Use the flex in the ECLs and your judgement to keep it challenging. As long as the PCs are sweating they definitely earned the XPs.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, I'm not going to be hitting them hour by hour by hour. For that matter, I don't even know what challanges I'm going to use. There isn't anything under 1 CR that I really want to touch.

For the moment, I'm thinking maybe some monstrous spiders.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For the moment, I'm thinking maybe some monstrous spiders.

http://www.inktank.com/AT/index.cfm?toon=11-12-02

-Hyp.

 

[Apok]

Since I use a similiarly generous stat rolling method, I know what its like to deal with low level characters that seem very powerful due to high stats. This method tends to favor the more combative and skill-oriented classes over spellcasters, but their low HP's still means they can die very easily from a couple of good hits. One thing that works is to keep their enemies CRs around 1 but use more of 'em. Quantity over quality, and all that. Throw them against larger numbers of CR 1's than a standard 1st level group would normally face.

Another way to handle them is with superior tactics. A group of Kobolds doesn't seem like much of a threat, especially to characters like the ones you have, but give them the advantage of suprise, terrain, and prepared traps? That'll be one hell of a bloody fight. Low-CR creatures become much more dangerous if they take advantage of the party's weaknesses and make smart tactical decisions. Have the Orcs use pike formations backed by archers, make sure your Kobolds have Sorcerer support, have Goblins make use of hit & run tactics and hidey holes, and target the mages & clerics first.

Using this method, you shouldn't need to tamper with the creatures base MM stats very much if at all. If that doesn't seem to challenge them, then you can probably safely up the average CR of the monsters they encounter.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Have the Orcs use pike formations backed by archers...

... or hobgoblins. Lawful Evil take to discipline and formation better than Chaotic Evil, I'd think.

-Hyp.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Lots of good suggestions here -- I won't add to them, but I've a question on logic.

If you've increased your character's stat level to "feel heroic"; then why increase the level of the opposition? Doesn't that just negate the "feel heroic" advantage?

If 75 point characters vs. CR 1 monsters is balanced, but doesn't "feel heroic", so you go to 90 point characters, doesn't putting them up against CR2 creatures (or whatever) just get you back to where you started?

 

[Apok]

... or hobgoblins. Lawful Evil take to discipline and formation better than Chaotic Evil, I'd think.

-Hyp.

That would work just as well. Of course, IMC, not all Orcs are CE. Many are very military minded and live in a structured, if tyrannical, society somewhat akin to ancient Sparta.

 

[Xarlen]

S
Another way to handle them is with superior tactics. A group of Kobolds doesn't seem like much of a threat, especially to characters like the ones you have, but give them the advantage of suprise, terrain, and prepared traps? That'll be one hell of a bloody fight. Low-CR creatures become much more dangerous if they take advantage of the party's weaknesses and make smart tactical decisions. Have the Orcs use pike formations backed by archers, make sure your Kobolds have Sorcerer support, have Goblins make use of hit & run tactics and hidey holes, and target the mages & clerics first.

For shame. FOR SHAME.

Kobolds are my little chosen race. I would never put kobolds up against a 1st level party unless they feel like DIEING or complying. The lowest I'd ever consider using them is level 5.

And, they're more *capable*. Ergo the Monk, the Paladin. Heroics is done in the accomplishment of a challange, be it on what scale. The tougher the challange, to more dangerous a challange, the more heroic it is.