Hello all,
I apologize in advance for the long post. But we had a great fight last night, and I would like your input on tactics and some rules. So I've decribed it as best I could. My memory isn't perfect, but the salient points are there. Below are our party membres. We don't share our character sheets, so I may be wrong in some aspects. I won't tell you which character is mine, to stay objective.
We have a great bunch, and are not min/maxed. The DM follows the rules by the books as much as possible, and is very strict. But we like his style
If anything, he tries to be fair and realistic. So please don't take the DM rulings below as criticism.
The party:
Sa'Keb (Human Clr4)
Semeren (Human Ftr4)
Macou (Human Mnk4)
Firingon (Elf Mnk1/Wiz3)
Melian (Half-Elf Mnk2/Src2)
Hybrahim (Elf Mnk3)
First, a little background. We had been exploring an abandoned mine. We had seen some combat, so most of us had sustained some damage, and were low on spells. We were buffed a little (a Bull's Strength on Semeren, some Mage Armors). We are looking for clues in the disappearance of Semeren's sister. We are in a low-magic campaign, so aside for some scrolls written by Firingon and a couple of rings and a +1 sword, we are pretty bare of magic items.
We cross a small cavern which has 4 zombies, seemingly motionless, which ignore us. We ignore them too for now and go down another corridor, as we know that the last cavern is there. As the first two party members (Hybrahim and Semeren) enter that cavern, combat begins.
We see three figures about 100' away. A fighter (Ftr6), a priest (Clr4) and a priestess (Clr6) around an altar (obviously evil). Immediately 6 zombies, three on each side of the cavern entrance, attack us. We had failed to spot them.
Hybrahim and Semeren engage them. Melian moves to one side of the entrance, against the wall. He is low on spell slots, so he doesn't cast right away, and he uses a Shield scroll. Firingon casts Invisibility and heads towards the same area Melian is. Sa'Keb tries to turn the zombies, but fails (bad die roll night for him). Macou, knowing that we left zombies behind us, watches the rear. The cavern entrance is fairly congested (Hybrahim, Semeren swinging a greatsword, and 6 zombies), so trying to engage the zombies would be difficult.
The priest and priestess cast Aid and Prayer spells. The priestess levitates to 15' in the air using boots of levitation. The fighter, spotting Melian, moves to engage. He is wearing boots of speed, so he closes quickly.
Semeren makes short work of the zombies against him, but Hybrahim is struggling with 3 of them for a while, and it's a stand-off. Melian is not risking spellcasting, as the fighter would get AoO's and he doesn't want to waste spells in case he misses the Concentration check for casting defensively. So he strikes at the fighter, to little effect. Meanwhile the fighter presses his attack on Melian, and damages him severely (high BAB, Str, and magic weapon). Firingon moves up closer to the priest and priestess, about 60' away, and casts Summon Monster II. He calls fiendish hawks, which attack the levitating priestess, and deal some damage (high rolls, lucky). He remains invisible, and the priest and priestess fail Listen checks to locate him.
Macou's vigilance pays off. The 4 zombies that we had passed earlier attack our rear. Macou fights defensively and uses Expertise to bump his AC, and blocks their progress. Sa'Keb tries to turn them, but fails again (bad roll again).
At this point, 8 zombies are left (4 behind, 4 in front), and the fighter, priest and priestess.
Semeren, seeing Melian's predicament, moves to engage the fighter, but cannot move far enough to attack. Melian attacks and tries to move away, but the fighter makes an AoO which connects, a critical hit. Melian falls unconscious. The priestess tries to cast a spell, but the hawks make AoO's against her and connect, and she fails her concentration check, losing the spell. Firingon casts another Summon Monster II, and launches more hawks at the priest. Again, the Listen checks failed, so he remains unlocated. Hybrahim is still in a stand-off against 3 zombies. Sa'Keb heals some damage on Macou, who was low on hit points from previous encounters.
The fighter decides not to coup de grâce Melian, and returns to engage Semeren, and they have at it. The priest casts Hold Person on Semeren. The hawk's AoO's fail, and Semeren fails his save. Semeren is held. Firingon moves to try and stabilize Melian, but fails. Sa'keb summons some celestial dogs which attack the priest (who is also busy with the hawks). The priestess lowers herself to the ground and moves up a bit. Things are not looking good... 7 out of 10 zombies left, all three principal antagonists mostly unharmed, Firingon low on spells, Hybrahim and Macou locked in combat, Melian down (still not stabilized), and Semeren out of it.
Macou and Sa'Keb see that just blocking the zombies in the rear is futile, so they engage more offensively. The fighter, not noticing right away that Semeren is held (DM's call) swings at him (so no coup de grâce), deals some damage, and knocks him to the ground (DM's call). Firingon finally stabilizes Melian. The priest engages the multiple hawks and dogs against him, so he's occupied. The priestess casts Dispel Magic and targets the spell that summoned the hawks, and succeeds (hawk AoO's fail). The hawks around her disappear. Hybrahim finally nails a zombie, 2 left against him.
Macou and Hybrahim continue to be engaged in melee, and Sa'Keb moves towards where Melian to try to see what he can do. The situation is starting to look desperate. The fighter, barely wounded, is now a free agent and may decide to coup de grâce Semeren. The priest, unharmed, is engaged with numerous but weak foes (which will not be there anymore before long), and the priestess, slightly wounded, is now also free.
Firingon uses a scroll and targets the fighter: Charm Person. He is no longer invisible. The fighter fails his save, and is charmed. Firingon pleads with the fighter to attack the priestess, and says she is threatening his life. The DM calls for a Charisma opposed roll, since it is not what the fighter would normally do (we do not know what relationship exists between them, friends or if he's a hireling). Firingon rolls low (moans all around), but the fighter rolls even lower. He attacks the priestess (cheers all around). Suddenly, things are looking up.
I'll speed up here. Macou and Hybrahim finish off the zombies, the fighter eventually kills the priestess (who was trying to cast, but the fighter's high BAB was devastating in AoO's), The priest was engaged for a while with the summoned monsters. He was engaged by Hybrahim soon after they were gone. The fighter decides to attack Hybrahim, but Firingon pleads with him to stop fighting. Another Charisma roll, and Firingon wins. The fighter stops. Semeren becomes unheld and mops up the remaining foes.
The fight over, we collect our substantial reward (gold, items, etc.), and we have the fighter, which is still charmed, to answer a few questions. One of the items is a cloak and clasp on the priestess belonging to Semeren's sister. Semeren looks grim...
These are the tactical errors I believe we made:
- We should have engaged the first 4 zombies before continuing
- Someone should have gone in, invisible, to scout the cavern beforehand
- Firingon should have cast Charm Person on the enemy fighter right away. Although the priestess would probably have tried to dispel the effect right away.
- The party should probably have backed up a little in the corridor to avoid spreading out so much and being attacked by multiple zombies. The corridor curved a little, so the enemy spellcasters would have had to approach to cast.
- We're not sure if Macou's tactic of fighting defensively to stall the rear zombies was really effective.
Rule errors:
- The fighter should not have had an AoO on Melian (who was using Shield, and therefore in 3/4 cover)
- The fighter should have had a +5 saving throw bonus against the Charm Person cast by Firingon (threatened by him and allies).
Rule questions:
- Do Aid and Prayer bonuses to attack rolls stack?
- Prayer inflicts a -1 luck penalty on foes. This means they have to be within 30' of the caster at casting time?
- Do Summoned Monsters attack the same round as cast, or the round after?
- If the priest or priestess had succeeded their Listen checks to spot Firingon casting, what location information would they have had?
- Would the fighter have noticed immediately that Semeren was held?
- Semeren was knocked to the ground, while held, when he was hit by the fighter. The DM said that he couldn't balance himself to keep from falling. Is this correct? Or does the fighter need the knockdown feat for this?
- The priestess targeted the Summon Monster II spell cast by Firingon with a Dispel Magic. Is this correct? Or could she have used it in area mode?
- Does Charm Person consitute an attack, meaning that an invisible caster becomes visible?
- Were the Charisma opposed rolls handled correctly following Firingon's requests to the charmed fighter?
- When charmed, does the fighter see Firingon's allies as enemies still?
- If Firingon requests that the fighter answer the party's questions, would he refuse, and only talk to him?
That's about it. I hope you found it entertaining, and I welcome any comments.
Regards,
Andargor
I apologize in advance for the long post. But we had a great fight last night, and I would like your input on tactics and some rules. So I've decribed it as best I could. My memory isn't perfect, but the salient points are there. Below are our party membres. We don't share our character sheets, so I may be wrong in some aspects. I won't tell you which character is mine, to stay objective.
We have a great bunch, and are not min/maxed. The DM follows the rules by the books as much as possible, and is very strict. But we like his style
If anything, he tries to be fair and realistic. So please don't take the DM rulings below as criticism.The party:
Sa'Keb (Human Clr4)
Semeren (Human Ftr4)
Macou (Human Mnk4)
Firingon (Elf Mnk1/Wiz3)
Melian (Half-Elf Mnk2/Src2)
Hybrahim (Elf Mnk3)
First, a little background. We had been exploring an abandoned mine. We had seen some combat, so most of us had sustained some damage, and were low on spells. We were buffed a little (a Bull's Strength on Semeren, some Mage Armors). We are looking for clues in the disappearance of Semeren's sister. We are in a low-magic campaign, so aside for some scrolls written by Firingon and a couple of rings and a +1 sword, we are pretty bare of magic items.
We cross a small cavern which has 4 zombies, seemingly motionless, which ignore us. We ignore them too for now and go down another corridor, as we know that the last cavern is there. As the first two party members (Hybrahim and Semeren) enter that cavern, combat begins.
We see three figures about 100' away. A fighter (Ftr6), a priest (Clr4) and a priestess (Clr6) around an altar (obviously evil). Immediately 6 zombies, three on each side of the cavern entrance, attack us. We had failed to spot them.
Hybrahim and Semeren engage them. Melian moves to one side of the entrance, against the wall. He is low on spell slots, so he doesn't cast right away, and he uses a Shield scroll. Firingon casts Invisibility and heads towards the same area Melian is. Sa'Keb tries to turn the zombies, but fails (bad die roll night for him). Macou, knowing that we left zombies behind us, watches the rear. The cavern entrance is fairly congested (Hybrahim, Semeren swinging a greatsword, and 6 zombies), so trying to engage the zombies would be difficult.
The priest and priestess cast Aid and Prayer spells. The priestess levitates to 15' in the air using boots of levitation. The fighter, spotting Melian, moves to engage. He is wearing boots of speed, so he closes quickly.
Semeren makes short work of the zombies against him, but Hybrahim is struggling with 3 of them for a while, and it's a stand-off. Melian is not risking spellcasting, as the fighter would get AoO's and he doesn't want to waste spells in case he misses the Concentration check for casting defensively. So he strikes at the fighter, to little effect. Meanwhile the fighter presses his attack on Melian, and damages him severely (high BAB, Str, and magic weapon). Firingon moves up closer to the priest and priestess, about 60' away, and casts Summon Monster II. He calls fiendish hawks, which attack the levitating priestess, and deal some damage (high rolls, lucky). He remains invisible, and the priest and priestess fail Listen checks to locate him.
Macou's vigilance pays off. The 4 zombies that we had passed earlier attack our rear. Macou fights defensively and uses Expertise to bump his AC, and blocks their progress. Sa'Keb tries to turn them, but fails again (bad roll again).
At this point, 8 zombies are left (4 behind, 4 in front), and the fighter, priest and priestess.
Semeren, seeing Melian's predicament, moves to engage the fighter, but cannot move far enough to attack. Melian attacks and tries to move away, but the fighter makes an AoO which connects, a critical hit. Melian falls unconscious. The priestess tries to cast a spell, but the hawks make AoO's against her and connect, and she fails her concentration check, losing the spell. Firingon casts another Summon Monster II, and launches more hawks at the priest. Again, the Listen checks failed, so he remains unlocated. Hybrahim is still in a stand-off against 3 zombies. Sa'Keb heals some damage on Macou, who was low on hit points from previous encounters.
The fighter decides not to coup de grâce Melian, and returns to engage Semeren, and they have at it. The priest casts Hold Person on Semeren. The hawk's AoO's fail, and Semeren fails his save. Semeren is held. Firingon moves to try and stabilize Melian, but fails. Sa'keb summons some celestial dogs which attack the priest (who is also busy with the hawks). The priestess lowers herself to the ground and moves up a bit. Things are not looking good... 7 out of 10 zombies left, all three principal antagonists mostly unharmed, Firingon low on spells, Hybrahim and Macou locked in combat, Melian down (still not stabilized), and Semeren out of it.
Macou and Sa'Keb see that just blocking the zombies in the rear is futile, so they engage more offensively. The fighter, not noticing right away that Semeren is held (DM's call) swings at him (so no coup de grâce), deals some damage, and knocks him to the ground (DM's call). Firingon finally stabilizes Melian. The priest engages the multiple hawks and dogs against him, so he's occupied. The priestess casts Dispel Magic and targets the spell that summoned the hawks, and succeeds (hawk AoO's fail). The hawks around her disappear. Hybrahim finally nails a zombie, 2 left against him.
Macou and Hybrahim continue to be engaged in melee, and Sa'Keb moves towards where Melian to try to see what he can do. The situation is starting to look desperate. The fighter, barely wounded, is now a free agent and may decide to coup de grâce Semeren. The priest, unharmed, is engaged with numerous but weak foes (which will not be there anymore before long), and the priestess, slightly wounded, is now also free.
Firingon uses a scroll and targets the fighter: Charm Person. He is no longer invisible. The fighter fails his save, and is charmed. Firingon pleads with the fighter to attack the priestess, and says she is threatening his life. The DM calls for a Charisma opposed roll, since it is not what the fighter would normally do (we do not know what relationship exists between them, friends or if he's a hireling). Firingon rolls low (moans all around), but the fighter rolls even lower. He attacks the priestess (cheers all around). Suddenly, things are looking up.
I'll speed up here. Macou and Hybrahim finish off the zombies, the fighter eventually kills the priestess (who was trying to cast, but the fighter's high BAB was devastating in AoO's), The priest was engaged for a while with the summoned monsters. He was engaged by Hybrahim soon after they were gone. The fighter decides to attack Hybrahim, but Firingon pleads with him to stop fighting. Another Charisma roll, and Firingon wins. The fighter stops. Semeren becomes unheld and mops up the remaining foes.
The fight over, we collect our substantial reward (gold, items, etc.), and we have the fighter, which is still charmed, to answer a few questions. One of the items is a cloak and clasp on the priestess belonging to Semeren's sister. Semeren looks grim...
These are the tactical errors I believe we made:
- We should have engaged the first 4 zombies before continuing
- Someone should have gone in, invisible, to scout the cavern beforehand
- Firingon should have cast Charm Person on the enemy fighter right away. Although the priestess would probably have tried to dispel the effect right away.
- The party should probably have backed up a little in the corridor to avoid spreading out so much and being attacked by multiple zombies. The corridor curved a little, so the enemy spellcasters would have had to approach to cast.
- We're not sure if Macou's tactic of fighting defensively to stall the rear zombies was really effective.
Rule errors:
- The fighter should not have had an AoO on Melian (who was using Shield, and therefore in 3/4 cover)
- The fighter should have had a +5 saving throw bonus against the Charm Person cast by Firingon (threatened by him and allies).
Rule questions:
- Do Aid and Prayer bonuses to attack rolls stack?
- Prayer inflicts a -1 luck penalty on foes. This means they have to be within 30' of the caster at casting time?
- Do Summoned Monsters attack the same round as cast, or the round after?
- If the priest or priestess had succeeded their Listen checks to spot Firingon casting, what location information would they have had?
- Would the fighter have noticed immediately that Semeren was held?
- Semeren was knocked to the ground, while held, when he was hit by the fighter. The DM said that he couldn't balance himself to keep from falling. Is this correct? Or does the fighter need the knockdown feat for this?
- The priestess targeted the Summon Monster II spell cast by Firingon with a Dispel Magic. Is this correct? Or could she have used it in area mode?
- Does Charm Person consitute an attack, meaning that an invisible caster becomes visible?
- Were the Charisma opposed rolls handled correctly following Firingon's requests to the charmed fighter?
- When charmed, does the fighter see Firingon's allies as enemies still?
- If Firingon requests that the fighter answer the party's questions, would he refuse, and only talk to him?
That's about it. I hope you found it entertaining, and I welcome any comments.
Regards,
Andargor
