Party Too Strong

[Folly]

That leaves him with only 1 daily use of his wandgrip. Normally, he uses less power - either casting spells normally, or applying the wandgrip-wand or two wands if things require more firepower. The short of it is that nothing can really withstand his firepower for two rounds.

Tell me if I a not understanding this correctly. But the wandgrip items are attached to specific items. You can change what they are attached to but I think that requires some sort of action. Thus I think your player might be doing this wrong if he is using one grip to power two wands. I am not entirely familiar with these rules but I think that holds. The question I have is the matter of wealth investment. I have looked at this build before, but discarded it as the cost of burning sooo many charges hurts the pocket book.

Since the biggest issue seems to be the fire power of the wand wielder I would suggest using monster with good SR. Due to the static nature of the wands, their caster level for SR do not go up as they level. This will quickly weaken the effectiveness of the initial burst without having to take something away from the players. For example, a few drow with about 9 to 10 levels each would have 20 or 21 sr. This means that for all of your casters they are at a 50/50 to make their spells stick, and the wands are probably worse off. Non-SR spells have one of two weaknesses: either touch attach or saving throw. So have an encounter that uses a creature with good SR and has rogue and pious templar / hexblade. A caster heavy party wont appreciate creature with SR that if you affect them they save for no effect on everything, and have at least decent touch ACs.

 

[Folly]

I did some math.... using two wands of fireball cl10 in a manor as you describe costs 2250 gold. (3000 if you add a quicken in there) Maybe the problem isn't the builds but the gold fueling the characters. To put that in terms people are a bit more familiar with that is 60% of the cost of a raise dead.

 

[mirivor]

1) We are using a very generous point-buy system to purchase Abiltiy Scores.

I think that this is the number one problem that actually exists for most people, even if they do not realize it. Huge stats lead to huge numbers and otherwise-difficult to obtain combinations. Worst of all, it is nearly impossible to correct it once the game has started without shattering versimilitude.

Overall, if your party has big stats, your adventure will be altered. End of story. There is no unobstrusive way to challenge them. I would look to the increase of monsters per encounter and flat-out strengthening of them. If your party is privy to 40 bajillion point buy then the monsters should be too. Give each and every creature another 4 points to each stat. You will see what I mean when I say that base stats equal end-game power. Your problem will probably only get worse as the PCs get more levels. You need to drop the idea of letting the prewritten alone and start modifying it.

Just my cents.

Later!

 

[Herobizkit]

I was under the impression that Shackled City was created with a 6-player party as the base assumption (which IIRC was why it was viewed by many as a meat-grinder).

Splatbooks are a haven for "unbalanced" feats and abilities (I hate using the word "unbalanced" in reference to 3.x), and when combined from various sources will-nilly, sometimes a wonky or abusive result is created. Re: your elf - it's not a question of whether or not he CAN blast for 40d6, but if he DOES, and how often.

If monsters are becoming cannon fodder, add some PC levels, or throw on a template. My PC's were surprised when the goblins they had previously been fighting were actually wereboars... try and shake them up a bit. Spell Resistance ees your fraind; use it, and monsters that have it.

Bottom line, worry less about how badly the PCs are stomping the module and enjoy the story. It's not about you vs. them.

 

[Traken]

If nothing else, you could pull out the ultimate "Cool Off" for casters: Anti-Magic Fields!

Just be careful. This would probably work for one encounter without too many problems, but repeats just cause grief for the players. So I'd save this one for an encounter you just really want to happen.

 

[Yair]

Thanks all. You've given me a lot to think about.

The module is designed for 6 characters, so that isn't an issue. Seeking to correct for their power actually came from the players, requesting more challenge, so it's clearly a problem for them and I won't just cruise through. I don't have the time to seriously alter the adventure by slappling on templates, tailor-suiting opponents, or so on - this why I use a purchased adventure, I'm very pressed for time. However, I have decided I will start increasing the hp and numbers of opponents - changes I can easily make, and perhaps add in a few more critters from the MM now and then.

I'm also in agreement nerfing the characters doesn't seem as fun as increasing the challenge. So I am going to slightly nerf the action point rules, which the players see as largely as an experimental weird and often not used perk, and the elf's wandgrip/feat combo [yes, it IS expensive, but it's still just too powerful] - but otherwise leave the party as-is and increase the challenge as per above.

Thanks again!

 

[Mark Chance]

However, I have decided I will start increasing the hp and numbers of opponents - changes I can easily make, and perhaps add in a few more critters from the MM now and then.

That's probably your best bet. Adding cannon-fodder to encounters is pretty easy to do. When I DMed a large group of players who were ahead on the power curve and I used pre-made stuff, I'd often just add an equal EL of lackeys to an encounter.

For example, if the party was going to fight four ogres (EL 7), I'd add, say, 10 gnolls (EL 7), bumping the encounter EL up 9 and giving the players the satisfaction of mowing through a gang of mooks.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The other problem is action points. The massive amount of action points (about 10) means that they become a common, trivial resource, greatly expanding the PC's power. They practically mean the PCs have a good chance of making any roll they miss by 3, and with a bit of luck even a greater miss.

You can declare the use of 1 action point to alter a d20 roll after the roll is made, but only before the GM reveals the result of that roll

Once you say they missed, they missed... it might work better if you use them this way.

Side note, I am running the WoBS campagin with a group of 7 to 8 PCs {depending on the Rogues new job} and I use many of the methods mentioned upthread to keep the power level in range.

My favorite method hasn't been mentioned yet.. just throw in one or two more encounters per day. The players get to massively overpower at least one encounter, making them feel good about the builds and powers, and get to be in a 'by the hair on my chin' battle.
This is generally safer than adding more beasties to existing encounters or looking for bigger bad guys.

 

[ardentmoth]

don't think it's been brought up, but....

you could always get a god who is interested in preventing them from attaining god-like power to enter the scene....

epic. battle. ftw.

 

[Slapzilla]

Cut WAAAY down on the cash rewards and loot for a few levels. Make them spend time and thought on recharging their current gear. When they gripe, well, tell them straight up, 'you guys are too strong.'

When they begin to struggle and actually begin using @20% of their resources getting thorough fights, then begin the rewards again. Until then... just booze money.