PF2 Pathfinder 2E Errata

The Pathfinder 2 developers were in a Twitch stream, where they confirmed some errata for the core rules. Thanks to @Markh3rd for the scoop!

Screenshot 2019-08-25 at 00.39.00.png

  • Humans are supposed to have one more language (Common + Bonus + INT).
  • Your proficiency in simple weapons is also what your proficiency in unarmed should be, including the wizard. Monk is an exception as they are better at unarmed.
  • Ki spells cue off Wisdom for the monk.
  • Sorcerer is missing a 17th level Resolve class feature, just the same as the wizard's (includes master will save, critical success, etc.).
  • Wizards don't get a 1st level class feat by default. This was a mistake. They only get one for being a universalist.
  • The adventurer's pack is only 1 bulk.
  • Heroic Recovery takes you to 0 hit points, not 1.
Link to the stream: Twitch

The developers said they will be releasing official critical errata soon as well as monster creation rules (so we will have them before the GameMastery Guide comes out).
 
Russ Morrissey

Comments

R_J_K75

Adventurer
@R_J_K75 ist right, this shouldn't happen today. Why not realease the PDF a couple of months early, let people take a look at it, and print the book with the errata? Pinnacle did this for their SWADE and it kinda worked. Not everything was fixed before the printing but most of it did.

Everything that comes later (bugfixes) are something else, that is to be expected.
I totally agree. I don't have the answer but I'm quite certain that something can be done to minimize the need for errata. Distributing a pre-print .pdf sounds like a good idea. A second or third set of eyes never hurts. When you work on something for a long time, you can proof read it and check it as much as you want and never find all the mistakes because you're no longer looking at it objectively. Give it to someone else and they'll find the mistakes pretty quickly.
 

CapnZapp

Hero
@R_J_K75 ist right, this shouldn't happen today.
While I would love if your sentiment had any practical application, I don't see this ceasing to happen today, tomorrow or years from now.

There simply is no incentive to pay extra costs for external proof-reading or playtesting, or those incurred by delayed publications.
 

R_J_K75

Adventurer
While I would love if your sentiment had any practical application, I don't see this ceasing to happen today, tomorrow or years from now.

There simply is no incentive to pay extra costs for external proof-reading or playtesting, or those incurred by delayed publications.
Whether a company takes steps before a book is printed to avoid or minimize errata, or compiling it and distributing it online and then incorporating it into future printings, they're incurring costs either way.
 

stadi

Explorer
Another example is the Odyssey of the Dragonlords Kickstarter. Backers got the 80% finished version, they can send feedback now, and will probably receive the finished version for proofreading before it is sent to the printer.

A company like Paizo with the amount of products they have wouldn't be able to do this for every product, but for the core book it would make sense.
 

Gallagor

Explorer
The RPG industry is more akin to programming than manufacturing. Patches are a thing in any complex software product (games or otherwise). And at hundreds of pages / thousands of lines RPG books are complex products. The easy problems are found in alpha or beta testing, but some always seem to sneak through. Software does have an advantage over RPGs though. The patch gets downloaded and applied. Done. An RPG book being a manufactured object... well you can print out the errata, write it into the margins yourself, or wait until the next printing. Given the possibility of yet more errata cropping up, waiting is not always the best option :) I appreciate the attitude of you (and your company) but the situations in a small industry with relatively low profit levels and a product that can't be easily "fixed" (no recalls) is not typical of manufacturing.
That. I totally agree.
 

R_J_K75

Adventurer
Another example is the Odyssey of the Dragonlords Kickstarter. Backers got the 80% finished version, they can send feedback now, and will probably receive the finished version for proofreading before it is sent to the printer.

A company like Paizo with the amount of products they have wouldn't be able to do this for every product, but for the core book it would make sense.
Just goes to show that it can be and has been done. With how easy it is to reach your customers in this day and age it makes sense to take advantage of the opportunity. With the slower product schedule WotC has adopted seems totally feasible for them to do.
 

CapnZapp

Hero
Whether a company takes steps before a book is printed to avoid or minimize errata, or compiling it and distributing it online and then incorporating it into future printings, they're incurring costs either way.
Okay?

The option of delaying costs until your product has been proven successful is infinitely preferable, as 99% of market practice clearly attest to.

The reason is simple: post release support can be paid for with profit from sales; pre-release QA must be paid for with the invariably strained launch budget.

Also, making sure the product is perfect at launch might never recoup its costs (if the product was t successful enough).

Look, it boils down to a very simple question: Does success in the ttrpg business depend on launching errata-free products?

And the answer is a resounding "not even a little".

Regards
 

dave2008

Legend
Just goes to show that it can be and has been done. With how easy it is to reach your customers in this day and age it makes sense to take advantage of the opportunity. With the slower product schedule WotC has adopted seems totally feasible for them to do.
A small publisher on kickstarter is not the same thing as Pazio or WotC. And distributing an 80% copy to your kickstarter backers is not the same as releasing your core-rulebook to the public. Finally, after the process Odyssey of the Dragonlords may still have errata. Remember, PF2e printed and sold a PF2e playtest document, that got feedback for months ( a year?) and it still had eratta when the final product was released. Paizo essential did what you asked for an it still had errata!
 
I recall the initial errata for the 5e core books to be fairly minimal and very little of it was serious changes to rules, more like typos and clarifications. WotC did pretty well. So it is possible for a large RPG publisher to ensure most errors are caught.
 

Lucas Yew

Explorer
Good that I decided to buy the PDFs only for now (which was of gloomy RL reasons that turned out all right because of this). Now I can wait for all the major glaring errors fixed in my future paper book...

By the way, I'm still traumatized that my 5th printing CRB's Monk became obsolete when the 6th nabbed them a straight buff in cold iron/silver unarmed strikes...
 

CapnZapp

Hero
I recall the initial errata for the 5e core books to be fairly minimal and very little of it was serious changes to rules, more like typos and clarifications. WotC did pretty well. So it is possible for a large RPG publisher to ensure most errors are caught.
Ouch, over 300 posts in that thread. I think about 25% of the posts are actual errata. All I gotta say is glad I bought the PDF :p
Well, not really.

WotC is very stingy with errata, afraid to create the perception the PHB is obsolete. They basically only issue errata when forced to. In any other era, the errata would likely be more extensive.

On the other hand, that thread (over at Paizo forums) is just a work in progress, with a low signal to noise ratio. The list of actual errata - ie things you actually care about - is much much smaller than that mammoth thread would lead you to believe.

Tldr I see no immediate signs of a gap in actual quality of any significance between WotC and Paizo. I also see no indication we're headed towards an errata-free future.
 
I would need to find some new hobbies if I held RJK75's standards. On the plus side I'd be wealthier, but on the downside I'd have to shy away from tabletop gaming, computer gaming and most all forms of media fiction.
 

teitan

Adventurer
I didn't buy PF2, but errata IMO is just careless and unacceptable. It shows poor quality control and management. These mistakes and omissions should be caught before the first printing, not after. This goes for any RPG or book in general. Most every word processor has spell check so even typos should be few and far between, if any. I always feel cheated when I buy a first printing and then 3 pages of errata comes out a month later. You either have to use your book as is with the printed errata or buy the revised printing. I understand that the game evolves or some rules are broken and need to be fixed, and should be. Incidents where things were left out or sentences need to be re-worded because of poor writing and proof reading simply should not happen and their staff should be held accountable. Ive never given it much thought but Id be curious to see if the incidents of errata decrease over the lifespan of an edition, for instance PF1 or D&D 3E.
You do realize 5e has errata too yeah?
 

Mistwell

Legend
My stance is not alien to how the world works.
It really is though.

This isn't just any manufactured product, it's a book. ALL books have minor errors in them.

Your manufactured product probably has a number of minor errors in them as well - they just don't ruin the product. In fact if your product comes with assembly instructions it almost certainly has an error...and that's likely only a few pages.

These don't ruin the product either. They're relatively minor to the overall functioning of the product. Thousands of people are successfully using the product without this fix, which is proof that the product does work as promised. Your meal order at the restaurant was good enough for you to not send it back - it's possible the garnish was not placed precisely where intended, but you barely noticed and it didn't impact your enjoyment of the meal. This is on that level.
 
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