Pathfinder 2's Sorcerer Goes "All In" On Bloodlines

Today's preview of the upcoming Pathfinder 2nd Edition is the sorcerer! The sorcerer has had a major redesign, with bloodline becoming even more important than it was in 1st Edition. Now, it determines which of four spell lists you get to use!

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Bloodlines are chosen at 1st level. Your bloodline then determines whether you use arcane, divine, primal, or occult spells. The demonic bloodline is previewed: divine spell list, a spell at each spell level, including fear, slow, disintegrate, and power word stun. Additionally you get signature skills, along with a number of bloodline powers.

Demonic
The demons of the Abyss debase all they touch, and one of your ancestors fell victim to their corruption. You're burdened with dark thoughts and the desire for destruction. This urge can be overcome if you choose to fight it, but the beauty of sin calls to you always.
Spell List divine (Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook 200)
Signature Skills Athletics, Deception, Intimidation, Religion
Granted Spells Cantrip: detect magic; 1st: fear; 2nd: resist energy; 3rd: slow; 4th: divine wrath; 5th: banishment; 6th: disintegrate; 7th: divine decree; 8th: power word stun; 9th: meteor swarm
Bloodline Powers Initial Power: glutton's jaws; Advanced Power: swamp of sloth (2); Greater Power: abyssal wrath (2)

Those bloodline powers are special spells which use Spell Points (SP equals your Charisma modifier per day). The Glutton's Jaws power is previewed in the blog.

What bloodlines are available? Here's the list!

• aberrant (occult)
• angelic (divine)
• demonic (divine)
• draconic (arcane)
• fey (primal)
• imperial (arcane)

As they have always been sorcerers are spontaneous casters. Same number of spell slots as a wizard, using Charisma for spell DCs and the like.

Sorcerers can also heighten spells spontaneously. Each day you choose two spells; you can cast heightened versions of those spells using any spell slot.

Sorcerer feats include:

• Overwhelming Spell (8th level) -- ignore 10 points of resistance to energy
• Dangerous Sorcery -- bonus damage equal to spell level
• Blood Magic (8th level) -- give temporary hit points if you are bleeding
• Wellspring Spell (20th level) -- cast 5th level or lower spells without expending spell slots

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[Charlaquin]

I also like that we got another preview on a Wednesday?

Huh?

They have been Mondays and Fridays for the most part, have they not?.

They have been entirely on Mondays and Fridays, the Sorcerer one included.

 

[TwoSix]

To be fair, you don’t have to swap out a lower level version of a spell for a higher level version; you could just learn and keep both versions of you want to.

Yeah, it’s definitely inelegant. It would be nice if you could cast any spell you know at any level just by expending the appropriate level slot. But I could see that being too powerful when every other spellcaster has to prepare each individual spell by slot level.

It IS a little weird to go back to the restricted spell casting after 5e's very open and freeform casting.

For sorcerers, I think getting less spells known overall but having free heightening for all of them might make more sense. Extreme flexibility in a narrow niche.

 

[Kurviak]

It IS a little weird to go back to the restricted spell casting after 5e's very open and freeform casting.

For sorcerers, I think getting less spells known overall but having free heightening for all of them might make more sense. Extreme flexibility in a narrow niche.

It is not going back, pf2 isn’t a 5e derivative but a pf1 one (or 3.5e if you want)

 

[5ekyu]

The, I liked their approach and they may roll a number of different concepts into one class depending on the bloodline powers.

 

[Charlaquin]

It is not going back, pf2 isn’t a 5e derivative but a pf1 one (or 3.5e if you want)

It’s not “going back” for Paizo, who never left classic Vancian. It may be “going back” for folks who went from 3e or Pathfinder to 5e and are now considering switching to PF2.

 

[MoonSong]

It IS a little weird to go back to the restricted spell casting after 5e's very open and freeform casting.

For sorcerers, I think getting less spells known overall but having free heightening for all of them might make more sense. Extreme flexibility in a narrow niche.

I'd take more spells known with a little less flexibility over less spells known on any form. 5e's levels border on unplayable.

 

[5ekyu]

I'd take more spells known with a little less flexibility over less spells known on any form. 5e's levels border on unplayable.

If by this you mean primary casters without significant non-casting power (sorc 5e vs bard 5e or wizard 5e) I agree. Especially at tiers 1-2 but really at all levels the sorc suffers in the phb by comparison.

Imo

 

[Charlaquin]

You know, what if instead of picking two spells a day that they can cast at any Height, what if Sorcerers could just Heighten their spells by spending Spell Points?

 

[zztong]

In thinking about the Sorcerer's ability to pick their spell list and spit-balling with some friends, I started wondering if Wizard, Cleric and Druid should be able to do that too, then differential those classes in other ways. Clerics wear armor, Druids change shape or have a pet, Wizards do something. I find that appealing, specially since my usual conception of a Druid character is basically a Wizard with Druid spells. (I don't care for shape shifting or the druid pet and there's no good archetype going the same direction.)

Anyways, that's just a thought for the ether.

 

[Henry]

To be fair, you don’t have to swap out a lower level version of a spell for a higher level version; you could just learn and keep both versions of you want to.

Yeah, it’s definitely inelegant. It would be nice if you could cast any spell you know at any level just by expending the appropriate level slot. But I could see that being too powerful when every other spellcaster has to prepare each individual spell by slot level.

The main reasons they said they did this was:

1) In testing the Sorcerer was VASTLY more powerful than wizards when given unlimited heightening;
2) They noted much higher "analysis paralysis" from testers playing sorcerers who could heighten lots of spells.

So, as a compromise, they struck on the "two spells each day" that they settled on. The idea of a feat to heighten ONE additional spell that was stuck as one choice (a 'signature spell' if you will) was floated in the forums, so we don't know if that will appear, or maybe later, or maybe not at all. I know I'd like to see more heightenable, perhaps with a class feat choice.