Pathfinder 2's Sorcerer Goes "All In" On Bloodlines

Today's preview of the upcoming Pathfinder 2nd Edition is the sorcerer! The sorcerer has had a major redesign, with bloodline becoming even more important than it was in 1st Edition. Now, it determines which of four spell lists you get to use!

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Bloodlines are chosen at 1st level. Your bloodline then determines whether you use arcane, divine, primal, or occult spells. The demonic bloodline is previewed: divine spell list, a spell at each spell level, including fear, slow, disintegrate, and power word stun. Additionally you get signature skills, along with a number of bloodline powers.

Demonic
The demons of the Abyss debase all they touch, and one of your ancestors fell victim to their corruption. You're burdened with dark thoughts and the desire for destruction. This urge can be overcome if you choose to fight it, but the beauty of sin calls to you always.
Spell List divine (Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook 200)
Signature Skills Athletics, Deception, Intimidation, Religion
Granted Spells Cantrip: detect magic; 1st: fear; 2nd: resist energy; 3rd: slow; 4th: divine wrath; 5th: banishment; 6th: disintegrate; 7th: divine decree; 8th: power word stun; 9th: meteor swarm
Bloodline Powers Initial Power: glutton's jaws; Advanced Power: swamp of sloth (2); Greater Power: abyssal wrath (2)

Those bloodline powers are special spells which use Spell Points (SP equals your Charisma modifier per day). The Glutton's Jaws power is previewed in the blog.

What bloodlines are available? Here's the list!

• aberrant (occult)
• angelic (divine)
• demonic (divine)
• draconic (arcane)
• fey (primal)
• imperial (arcane)

As they have always been sorcerers are spontaneous casters. Same number of spell slots as a wizard, using Charisma for spell DCs and the like.

Sorcerers can also heighten spells spontaneously. Each day you choose two spells; you can cast heightened versions of those spells using any spell slot.

Sorcerer feats include:

• Overwhelming Spell (8th level) -- ignore 10 points of resistance to energy
• Dangerous Sorcery -- bonus damage equal to spell level
• Blood Magic (8th level) -- give temporary hit points if you are bleeding
• Wellspring Spell (20th level) -- cast 5th level or lower spells without expending spell slots

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[Tony Vargas]

Ooh, not me. I'm always hated paleovancian casting, and I immediately fell in love with the 3.0 sorcerer and have never looked back.

The magic(npi) of the 3e Sorcerer was the same thing 5gat made it Tier 2, inferior to the Tier 1 wizard - it's limited, hard to change spells known. Like a magic wielding character in genre, a sorcerer was defined by a relatively small, consistent set of supernatural abilities.

It made it ideal for a strongly flavorful build to concept. Much like the 3e fighter, it was a more elegant design than D&D had seen before.

 

[MoonSong]

Do you expect wizards to spend all of their 2nd-and-above level spell slots heightening 1st level spells? Cause with only 3 slots per level per day, I kind of expect most of them to end up going to spells of their own level, with maybe a small handful of heightened spells of lower levels.

That is different, you said something along the lines of "amount of spells a wizard can reliably heighten", and the answer is all of them but the three lowest level slots. You could have said need to, have to, are expected to, but no, you said can. Now that you clarified I can give you a better answer.

In this case I don't think they are comparable, by the sole fact that a sorcerer will have a limited amount of spells known of each level, double so for the highest level she can cast. A wizard can afford to know a bunch of spell of the highest level he can cast, whereas a sorcerer traditionally is limited to at most two spells known of the highest level she can cast, in other words these slots of the highest possible level will need to be filled with heightened lower level spells. A sorcerer needs to heighten more than a wizard. Maybe something like two thirds of the higher level slots, but that many extra spell points will just scream "overpowered" anyway. The last thing the sorcerer class needs is to look overpowered -or worse being overpowered-. I seriously doubt there is a sweet spot other than "enough for potentially every single spell"

 

[rmcoen]

You're saying that a Sorc with 4 level-3 castings, and 2 level-3 spells known (say Fireball and Fly) is going to spend the 4 castings on Magic Missile 3, and not be throwing 4 fireballs? Hmmm... not in my experience, but YMMV. I suppose, if the 3rd level spells known were both utility, then I might see heightening a lower level spell to make up the difference.

 

[Charlaquin]

You're saying that a Sorc with 4 level-3 castings, and 2 level-3 spells known (say Fireball and Fly) is going to spend the 4 castings on Magic Missile 3, and not be throwing 4 fireballs? Hmmm... not in my experience, but YMMV. I suppose, if the 3rd level spells known were both utility, then I might see heightening a lower level spell to make up the difference.

Err... By my reading of the PF2 Warlock, they can’t spend 3rd level spell slots on casting magic missile 3 unless they know magic missile 3 as one one their 3rd level spells, or select magic missile as one of their 2 spells per day that they can spontaneously heighten.

 

[MoonSong]

You're saying that a Sorc with 4 level-3 castings, and 2 level-3 spells known (say Fireball and Fly) is going to spend the 4 castings on Magic Missile 3, and not be throwing 4 fireballs? Hmmm... not in my experience, but YMMV. I suppose, if the 3rd level spells known were both utility, then I might see heightening a lower level spell to make up the difference.

It's precisely in utility that I'm worried the most.

 

[MoonSong]

Err... By my reading of the PF2 Warlock, they can’t spend 3rd level spell slots on casting magic missile 3 unless they know magic missile 3 as one one their 3rd level spells, or select magic missile as one of their 2 spells per day that they can spontaneously heighten.

I'm still talking in the context of your proposed system.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm still talking in the context of your proposed system.

Ahh, ok. In that context, I’d agree with rmcoen. I think the majority of the sorcerer’s highest level slots would go to casting spells spells of their highest level. They might heighten a couple of lower-level spells per day, same as the Wizard. So they’d only need a couple more spell points per day.

It occurs to me that I didn’t make clear that I assume a heightened Sorcerer spell would still eat up a slot of the level it’s heightened to, just like a Wizard needs to prepare a spell in a slot of the level they want to heighten it to. The spell point cost would be to attach an opportunity cost to heightening spells. The difference would be, Wizard Heightening comes at the opportunity cost of other leveled spells you might otherwise be able to cast that day, while Sorcerer heightening would come at the opportunity cost of Powers you might otherwise be able to cast that day.

 

[Morgan Champion1]

I've actually been thinking about writing up a Spellsinger class for Pathfinder, which would be basically Bards with 9th-level spells. With these new rules, they could be Sorcerors who gain their power from music, like Bards do.