Pathfinder for Savage Worlds opinions

Hex08

Adventurer
My copy of Pathfinder for Savage Worlds showed up the other day and I have slowly been flipping through it. So far the only bit I feel unsure about is the Conviction mechanic but I haven't read the entire thing yet so I am withholding judgment on the game until I finish reading it. As a fan of both Pathfinder and Savage Worlds I generally like what I am seeing although it took a while for it to sink in that the classes from Pathfinder were actually edges in Savage Worlds. I'm curious what others think about the game.
 

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Retreater

Legend
Honestly, I've had it over a week and haven't broken the shrink wrap yet. I am curious to see what others think of the system, but I'm delaying final judgment until I actually read it beyond skimming the PDFs.
After playing Savage Worlds (although not Savage Pathfinder) at GaryCon a couple months ago, I'm starting to come to the realization that I don't care for the system (even though I've purchased all of Pinnacle's SWADE Kickstarters). It's one of those systems where I have to look to other players and ask "did I hit? how much damage do I do? can you math this out for me?"
 

MGibster

Legend
After playing Savage Worlds (although not Savage Pathfinder) at GaryCon a couple months ago, I'm starting to come to the realization that I don't care for the system (even though I've purchased all of Pinnacle's SWADE Kickstarters). It's one of those systems where I have to look to other players and ask "did I hit? how much damage do I do? can you math this out for me?"
My group has been using SW off an on for seven years now and a few of my players still ask those basic questions. "Do I roll my Wild Die with that?"
 

Retreater

Legend
My group has been using SW off an on for seven years now and a few of my players still ask those basic questions. "Do I roll my Wild Die with that?"
Yeah. I don't consider myself a gaming genius, but I do put a fair bit of work in understanding the systems I play (and GM). I'm not a slouch, and I obviously spend a lot of time gaming and thinking about gaming as a hobby (evidenced by being on this site). There's some disconnect between me and Savage Worlds. I've run numerous iterations of the d20 system, old school editions of D&D, percentage based games like Call of Cthulhu, Free League's Year Zero games, PbtA, Warhammer (though that one still sort of trips me up at times), and even GURPS - yet there's something that keeps tripping me up about Savage Worlds. While there's a combination of non-unified mechanics and grafted-on subsystems that befuddle me a bit from a standpoint of modern game design, I think the main thing that gets me is the math. It's not merely adding bonuses - it's rolling multiple dice, adding bonuses, subtracting penalties, dividing by different numbers, comparing and contrasting those based on the size of the enemy or its average ability die, etc. Then you get into the equipment numbers of adjusting your character's Toughness, subtracting the Armor Piercing of the weapons, etc. Then you roll again to dodge, soak the damage, shrug it off with metacurrency, etc. It just feels needlessly complex for a game that touts itself as being fast-paced and fun.
I've yet to have a fast-paced or fun experience with Savage Worlds, and I've been trying it for over a decade.
 

I absolutely love it! If Savage Worlds is peanut butter, and Pathfinder is chocolate, then Savage Pathfinder is a really tasty treat. I really like Golarion as a fantasy setting, and Savage Worlds as a rule system so this product was practically made for me specifically.
 


MGibster

Legend
It's not merely adding bonuses - it's rolling multiple dice, adding bonuses, subtracting penalties, dividing by different numbers, comparing and contrasting those based on the size of the enemy or its average ability die, etc.
The most trouble I've with the bonuses in any version of SW was running Rifts. Despite spending plenty on the Rifts kickstarter, I ran one campaign and decided never again. It has many of the same problems Palladium's Rifts does, though I'd drill a hole in my head before using Palladium rules again. It doesn't help that SW is terrible for vehicle combat the distances for weapons and speed just doesn't scale well at all.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
While there's a combination of non-unified mechanics and grafted-on subsystems that befuddle me a bit from a standpoint of modern game design, I think the main thing that gets me is the math. It's not merely adding bonuses - it's rolling multiple dice, adding bonuses, subtracting penalties, dividing by different numbers, comparing and contrasting those based on the size of the enemy or its average ability die, etc. Then you get into the equipment numbers of adjusting your character's Toughness, subtracting the Armor Piercing of the weapons, etc. Then you roll again to dodge, soak the damage, shrug it off with metacurrency, etc. It just feels needlessly complex for a game that touts itself as being fast-paced and fun.
I will certainly agree that the subsystems, like the chase system, drive me nuts. As for the rest, I feel like we are playing different versions of the same game, or maybe just using different settings with customized rules because I don't feel like the system is that complex. Some versions of D&D are far worse. Or maybe I am playing it wrong, my 53-year-old brain isn't quite as good as it was in years past :)
 

Retreater

Legend
I will certainly agree that the subsystems, like the chase system, drive me nuts. As for the rest, I feel like we are playing different versions of the same game, or maybe just using different settings with customized rules because I don't feel like the system is that complex. Some versions of D&D are far worse. Or maybe I am playing it wrong, my 53-year-old brain isn't quite as good as it was in years past :)
It could be that my experience with Savage Worlds is mostly Rifts, and it's permanently jumbled my brain into not understanding the system as a whole?
Rifts is the one Savage setting that appeals to me the most. I don't care about cowboys, and the core game is too bland to interest me. I backed Holler since that one is of regional interest to me (living in Kentucky). The Pathfinder setting is interesting just to see if they can apply the system to something that already makes sense to me (the d20 system), and can I extrapolate how this rules system is supposed to function?
But Savage Rifts, yeah, that's mostly unplayable to my mind. I'd say that Savage Rifts is more complex than any edition of D&D I've played.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
It could be that my experience with Savage Worlds is mostly Rifts, and it's permanently jumbled my brain into not understanding the system as a whole?
Rifts is the one Savage setting that appeals to me the most. I don't care about cowboys, and the core game is too bland to interest me. I backed Holler since that one is of regional interest to me (living in Kentucky). The Pathfinder setting is interesting just to see if they can apply the system to something that already makes sense to me (the d20 system), and can I extrapolate how this rules system is supposed to function?
But Savage Rifts, yeah, that's mostly unplayable to my mind. I'd say that Savage Rifts is more complex than any edition of D&D I've played.
I've never played any version of Rifts, including the Savage Worlds on so that might be it. I always thought is sounded like a cool setting though.
 

thullgrim

Adventurer
I have it and like it. It scratches the D&D itch quite well. I don’t love Golarion as a setting but the mechanics are portable to any setting. Having run Rise of the Runelords in PF1 and reading over it in Savage Pathfinder I think it’s going be a great way to play through the APs.

In my experience once you grok savage worlds it tends to play faster than 5e or any 3.x game. That really allows you to chew through content and actually have a chance to finish an AP in a reasonable amount of time.

I tend to run 3-4 hour sessions, adult schedules, so being able to accomplish more that 1-2 encounters in a single session is really nice.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
I'm still flipping through the rules and just reading parts in detail. For those of you who have read it, is the typical SW chase system not included? I didn't see it flipping through the rulebook. Honestly, if it's not there I would be ok with it. The chase system always felt like an unwieldy afterthought of a subsystem to me.
 

Thourne

Explorer
I don't regret purchasing it in the least, but for our table it has to much pathfinder in the rule changes.
We had been hoping for it to be more core swade with lots of setting information and such.
 


I have it and like it. It scratches the D&D itch quite well. I don’t love Golarion as a setting but the mechanics are portable to any setting. Having run Rise of the Runelords in PF1 and reading over it in Savage Pathfinder I think it’s going be a great way to play through the APs.

In my experience once you grok savage worlds it tends to play faster than 5e or any 3.x game. That really allows you to chew through content and actually have a chance to finish an AP in a reasonable amount of time.

I tend to run 3-4 hour sessions, adult schedules, so being able to accomplish more that 1-2 encounters in a single session is really nice.
Jeebs. How slow.
I find SW to be no faster than 5th ed, as it has it's own foibles. PF can run slow as it has many mini games in its rules. But 1-2 encounters in 4 hours sounds painful to me.
 

thullgrim

Adventurer
That’s been my experience with 5e or PF1/2. Savage Parhfinder for my table is much, much faster. As always your experience may vary.

I’m not a SW evangelist. It’s not a perfect solution for every genre but it excels as anything high action. You have to be able to embrace stinginess. Non-combat characters have interesting things to do in combat. Dramatic Tasks and Quick Encounters work well and you can get creative with them.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
They’ve put the rules into a special ‘chase deck’ of cards instead. Haven’t looked at them yet since my parcel is still somewhere in transit.
I must have missed it in SW Pathfinder, I'll have to look again (or actually read in instead of flipping through and reading random stuff, lol). I was hoping it was not included since the chase rules from both SW Deluxe and Adventure Edition aren't appealing to me.
 

Retreater

Legend
I must have missed it in SW Pathfinder, I'll have to look again (or actually read in instead of flipping through and reading random stuff, lol). I was hoping it was not included since the chase rules from both SW Deluxe and Adventure Edition aren't appealing to me.
Fortunately(?) the chase rules are so awkwardly grafted into the system that they're easy to ignore.
 

dbm

Adventurer
I must have missed it in SW Pathfinder, I'll have to look again (or actually read in instead of flipping through and reading random stuff, lol). I was hoping it was not included since the chase rules from both SW Deluxe and Adventure Edition aren't appealing to me.
They aren’t in the book; they’ve created a special deck of cards just for chases. If you have the box set I think it should include that.
 

Hex08

Adventurer
They aren’t in the book; they’ve created a special deck of cards just for chases. If you have the box set I think it should include that.
Ah, I didn't get the boxed set so no chase cards for me. I guess now I have no choice but to ignore a part of SW I didn't like anyway :)
 

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