Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[Hussar]

To be clear, that was for the notoriously corrupt, mob-run magazine business. Book publishing is not quite so screwed up, and the payments are much, much faster to the point where it really isn't a problem at all.

--Erik

Would you say that the shift from magazine to book format has helped you?

 

[Maggan]

Magazines are rough.

Books, on the other hand? You get paid for those a LOT sooner.

To be clear, that was for the notoriously corrupt, mob-run magazine business.

Thanks for chiming in. Puts a bit more light on the WotC transition from paper Dungeon and Dragon to online versions, as well as the development of Paizo over the last year.

Cheers!

/M

 

[Herschel]

33 pages half-filled with clueless trolls I'm going to not bother reading can be ignored for teh most part. It's pretty simple really:

1. Paizo runs basicall all physical distribution through Diamond, WotC only runs partly through Diamond with direct sales to large outlets. Would I believe Paizo sends more physical product through Diamond? Yeah, but that doesn't account for WotC's Amazon numbers, etc. which are rather large even without knowing exact numbers. It also doesn't account for WotC's digital offering numbers. Nor does it account for related sales (non-gaming books written to supplement the product, ie: the Swordmage series written by Rich Baker the "new Mike Mearls")

2. When a short while ago numerous people were chiming in about ic2v's numbers for a month showing paizo on top FOR THAT PERIOD ONLY now aren't citing that source that it shows WotC on top again.

3. Cycles of product release. On down months for WotC releases Paizo still has their consistent AP subscriptions. It's not out of the realm by any stretch to know some months with similar numbers to others will look stronger or weaker in comparison. especially when you consider...

4. Pathfinder is still in its early childhood, expanding and still new (ish) while 4E is a more mature property with a slower physical publishing schedule at this point.

 

[IronWolf]

33 pages half-filled with clueless trolls I'm going to not bother reading can be ignored for teh most part.

Nice.

 

[Herschel]

Nice.

When the thread is started by an admitted (and pretty good at it) forum troll and the first couple of pages I read were the Paizo cult (including you, Shemaska, etc.) falling all over themselves to xp eachother then it's a pretty good assumption that view is spot on.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

4. Pathfinder is still in its early childhood, expanding and still new (ish) while 4E is a more mature property with a slower physical publishing schedule at this point.

So, you are arguing that 4e is already in senescence? The difference in age is minor, so if 4e has already peaked then it is really in trouble.

For what it is worth, I blame 4e's releases more than I do any 'maturity' - what they were releasing was not what people were buying, and they were saturating their market.

Poor choices for release are much better for 4e than it being 'mature' - it is something that the folks at WotC can correct. If sales have peaked because 4e is 'mature' then there is nothing that can be done to save the current property, and it is a very young property compared to how long 3.X lasted.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Just in case any one is likely to misread my post - I do not think 4e is 'mature', 'aging', or 'senescent'. I think that it is in a slump, and may yet go back to being king of the hill, even if it is not the game for me.

 

[Eridanis]

Let's just say Hershel's not going to be able to answer you for a few days.

 

[dagger]

So, you are arguing that 4e is already in senescence? The difference in age is minor, so if 4e has already peaked then it is really in trouble.

For what it is worth, I blame 4e's releases more than I do any 'maturity' - what they were releasing was not what people were buying, and they were saturating their market.

Poor choices for release are much better for 4e than it being 'mature' - it is something that the folks at WotC can correct. If sales have peaked because 4e is 'mature' then there is nothing that can be done to save the current property, and it is a very young property compared to how long 3.X lasted.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Just in case any one is likely to misread my post - I do not think 4e is 'mature', 'aging', or 'senescent'. I think that it is in a slump, and may yet go back to being king of the hill, even if it is not the game for me.

We have 6-8 regulars since 2002 and most of us bought 10+ hardback from WoTC. I and another player bought EVERY single book WoTC up to and including Book of Nine Swords or whatever.

Over a year and a half of us playing 4e a total of 3 PHBs where bought, TOTAL. We had one DDI subscription we used to make and update characters. We no longer play 4e.....dont mine me, just being clueless.

There was just an energy among the veterans who had played 1e for years when 3e came out. It was the opposite when 4e came out, not sure why.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

We have 6-8 regulars since 2002 and most of us bought 10+ hardback from WoTC. I and another player bought EVERY single book WoTC up to and including Book of Nine Swords or whatever.

Over a year and a half of us playing 4e a total of 3 PHBs where bought, TOTAL. We had one DDI subscription we used to make and update characters. We no longer play 4e.....don't mine me, just being clueless.

There was just an energy among the veterans who had played 1e for years when 3e came out. It was the opposite when 4e came out, not sure why.

I had noticed the same thing, in regards to 3e, when it first came out - suddenly I wasn't the oldest gamer that I knew, anymore. Heck, I gave up on AD&D in mid 2e, and 3e, or more accurately the promise of D20, brought me back.

4e never drew me in, and its roll out actively discouraged me. The closest that I have come to considering 4e, I think, was Gamma World, but I decided to stick with the S&S version instead. Essentials almost tempted me, not to play, but because of the low price point.

I don't remember 3e being quite so dismissive of earlier editions as it appeared was the case with the 4e roll out. Maybe that was it? Not at all certain though, maybe I just didn't notice it with 3e, but it seemed to be more welcoming to the older style of play. (Heck, wasn't the very first D20 adventure labeled 'Third Edition Rules, First Edition Feel' or the like? Good old Necromancer. )

The Auld Grump

 

[Talok]

Congrats, Paizo guys 'n gals.

You've earned this, and more. It'll be fascinating to see what "more" entails...

Your diligence, enthusiasm, openness, honesty, integrity, and clear love for the game (and of fellow gamers), do indeed happen to bring rewards, it would seem.

All as it should be.

Exactly. It just goes to show that treating your customers and employees well and being committed to quality products, especially adventures, pays off. If only WotC could get this through their thick skulls.