Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder overhaul suggestions, pt. 2

[RangerWickett]

Listen, if I were going to rewrite the system entirely, I'd go and do a lot of things 4e has done, and pare stuff down a ton. Your AC would be 10 + (Dex and light armor) or (heavy armor) + enhancement bonus. There would be no deflection, dodge, luck, etc. bonuses to AC, though in combat you could gain a morale bonus, circumstance bonus, or power bonus that lasted for a little while.

Like I said in the other thread, I generally like the core mechanics of 4e, I just am near to loathing its visual and thematic aesthetics. On an almost perfect flip-side, I really don't see the need for all the different bonus types in 3e, but I totally love the Pathfinder aesthetic. I wish I had a few million dollars to buy the D&D brand and then sell it to Paizo.

But since I don't, I'm trying to compromise and make things as simple as possible while keeping existing 3e monsters and gadgets usable.

Oh, and Wulf, fatigued and exhausted need to be external modifiers, just like almost everything else, because of barbarian rage, waves of exhaustion, and similar effects. I think internals should only be modified due to changes to your character that will last days or more (curses, destroyed gear, and gaining or losing new abilities).

 

[Nifft]

No, but it is helpful to say that Bull's Strength should have a long casting time, and last for hours. (4e, perhaps, would classify Bull's Strength as a utility spell, or a "Ritual.")

Bull's Strength in specific was changed from an hours-long duration to a single-fight duration because having it hours-long was too strong.

And you're proposing making it last all day and be immune to combat-time Dispel Magic?

Huh, -- N

 

[RangerWickett]

Bull's Strength in specific was changed from an hours-long duration to a single-fight duration because having it hours-long was too strong.

And you're proposing making it last all day and be immune to combat-time Dispel Magic?

Huh, -- N

Depends on how much we want backwards compatibility. Me, I'd go for:

Bull's Strength
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Casting Time: Standard
Duration: Encounter
Range: Touch

(flavor)

The touched creature gets a +2 power bonus to melee attack and damage rolls, thrown damage rolls, and Strength-based checks. It takes no penalty from encumbrance up to its normal max load.


Then we'd also have:

Giant's Strength
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Casting Time: Ritual
Duration: Long (which means until the affected person sleeps)
Range: Touch

(flavor)

The touched creature gets a +4 bonus to melee attack and damage rolls, thrown damage rolls, and Strength-based skill checks. It can wield weapons as if it were one size category larger, its max load is doubled, and it suffers no penalties for encumbrance up to its max load.

 

[RangerWickett]

So, from my point of view, I've never seen this as an issue.
Pathfinder ought to fix the dependence on magic items and nerf stick spellcasters.

If there are fewer stat modifiers, then to keep PCs in line with the power level of monsters, we'd want to give them inherent bonuses to saves and AC, I'd imagine. And if we do that, there's less need for magic items.

 

[AllisterH]

If there are fewer stat modifiers, then to keep PCs in line with the power level of monsters, we'd want to give them inherent bonuses to saves and AC, I'd imagine. And if we do that, there's less need for magic items.

To do that, you need to actually have a progression for the bonuses a PC is supposed to have every level.

Furthermore, it doesn't deal with the fundamental problem that 3.x changed the underlying mechanics of the utility/non-combat spells from 1e/2e.

I repeat again, Redgar must have slept with someone's sister at WOTC or Mialee must be "fantastic" n bed.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Bull's Strength in specific was changed from an hours-long duration to a single-fight duration because having it hours-long was too strong.

Cite?

I'll happily counter any cite for "too strong" with "Not really..." and I'll have Monte Cook in my corner.

And you're proposing making it last all day and be immune to combat-time Dispel Magic?

I don't recall saying "all day" but for the sake of simplicity, I'll just answer, "Yep."

PCs running rough-shod over your campaign with their gauntlets of ogre power?

Oh, and Wulf, fatigued and exhausted need to be external modifiers, just like almost everything else, because of barbarian rage,

You've actually had the fatigue effect of barbarian rage come into play?

waves of exhaustion,

Why do the rules have to structure themselves around waves of exhaustion, but not ray of enfeeblement?

Well, YMMV. One way or another, something is getting rewritten. You can either rewrite the effects of fatigue, or you rewrite the effects of waves of exhaustion.

I'd rather keep the distinction between an actual, long-term physical condition (fatigued, exhausted) and preserve those game functions, and rewrite touch of fatigue and waves of exhaustion so that they provide temporary debuffs.

I think internals should only be modified due to changes to your character that will last days or more (curses, destroyed gear, and gaining or losing new abilities).

That's a lot longer than I personally see as necessary. I just don't want to have to recalculate mid-combat. Full stop.

But I can definitely see an argument for drawing a bright line across permanent effects.

Essentially, that means drawing a line between spells and magic items.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Bull's Strength in specific was changed from an hours-long duration to a single-fight duration because having it hours-long was too strong.

And you're proposing making it last all day and be immune to combat-time Dispel Magic?

Huh, -- N

My preference would be to get rid of all buffs, with perhaps an exception for buffs that have an inherent disadvantage built in - I'd rather see a buff that gives you a Rage effect than a simple Bulls Strength.

 

[Nellisir]

I thought about that but ruled it out as a bit silly... That's a long chug.

Maybe it's an oil to be applied, not a potion to be chugged.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Maybe it's an oil to be applied, not a potion to be chugged.

Even better if you can't apply it yourself.

"You guys mind rubbing me down before the next combat?"

 

[RangerWickett]

Even better if you can't apply it yourself.

"You guys mind rubbing me down before the next combat?"

Also known as "the era when D&D players started making female PCs a lot more often."