Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder Second Edition: I hear it's bad - Why Bad, How Bad?

[CapnZapp]

No, I'm not reacting specifically to your numbers. I'm just saying if shields can't be upgraded noone will build their characters for them.

Let's hold off until we get confirmation on what the situation really is in the final rulebook.

 

[JesterOC]

I have the final rulebook.
And in my example I mentioned that the two handed sword guy starting winning the arms race until I added a better shield. I picked 4th level because that is the level of that shield, they have higher level shields as well.

I just handed those 4th level fighters a maxed out +3 striking swords and the most powerful non magical shield. And the sword and board guy wins. 55% of the time.
Will that be true all the way to 20th lvl, maybe not. But at least I think that magic weapons are not going to tilt the balance on their own.

 

[Parmandur]

I have the final rulebook.
And in my example I mentioned that the two handed sword guy starting winning the arms race until I added a better shield. I picked 4th level because that is the level of that shield, they have higher level shields as well.

I just handed those 4th level fighters a maxed out +3 striking swords and the most powerful non magical shield. And the sword and board guy wins. 55% of the time.
Will that be true all the way to 20th lvl, maybe not. But at least I think that magic weapons are not going to tilt the balance on their own.

Wait...the shields have levels??

 

[JesterOC]

Wait...the shields have levels??

For the treasure distribution tables yes. It gives you a good idea on the magic item power level as well. But if a first level character picks up the best shield in the land then he can use it. Barring weird magical reasons like maybe only evil characters can use it and such.
But you are unlikely to find such a great shield just sitting around, much like you are not going to find a Lamborghini, in an abandoned lot.

Oh and it does not have to be magic either, some of the best shields are non magical, they are just very high quality.

 

[Remathilis]

Wait...the shields have levels??

Its an element they introduced in Starfinder. All gear is given a level that is kinda like a CR for magical items; a guidepost to tell if an item is too potent or too weak. I don't know about PF2, but in Starfinder I found it routinely meant you were changing items every few levels as you acquired new stuff and often times felt like Looter-Shooter style upgrading to your armor and weapons (At 1st level, you should have as Estex suit 1 armor, but around level 5 you can afford Estex suit II armor, which is the same type of armor, but better). I imagine PF2 will use magical and or special materials (plate mail, +1 plate, dragonscale plate, adamantine plate, etc) to simulate a similar treadmill.

 

[Parmandur]

Its an element they introduced in Starfinder. All gear is given a level that is kinda like a CR for magical items; a guidepost to tell if an item is too potent or too weak. I don't know about PF2, but in Starfinder I found it routinely meant you were changing items every few levels as you acquired new stuff and often times felt like Looter-Shooter style upgrading to your armor and weapons (At 1st level, you should have as Estex suit 1 armor, but around level 5 you can afford Estex suit II armor, which is the same type of armor, but better). I imagine PF2 will use magical and or special materials (plate mail, +1 plate, dragonscale plate, adamantine plate, etc) to simulate a similar treadmill.

That's... something.

 

[JesterOC]

That's... something.

That is a hell of a lot better than "use these tables" or "figure it out by the gold piece value".

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's... something.

I agree that it seems kinda odd, and very game-y, but it honestly reminds me a lot of looking at the equipment list for Phantasy Star II. Every town, in order, has numerically superior weapons and armor; because that's your incentive to fight monsters in the area.

As nostalgic as that is, it doesn't make any sense in regards to a tabletop RPG. I mean, it works in a video game, because they have a very tight leash on where you can go at any given time. A tabletop RPG is supposed to present a believable world, where the players have complete freedom to go anywhere they want, so why wouldn't they just take some easy (low-level) missions and grind away until they can afford end-game equipment?

 

[ssvegeta555]

Magic Item Compendium for 3.5 assigned levels to magic items too, it's a handy reference to see at a glance how level appropriate the magic item is. I think for MIC it was based on gold piece value, and when the item might first appear in treasure hoards. Looks like PF2 is doing the same. I approve.

 

[Zardnaar]

I agree that it seems kinda odd, and very game-y, but it honestly reminds me a lot of looking at the equipment list for Phantasy Star II. Every town, in order, has numerically superior weapons and armor; because that's your incentive to fight monsters in the area.

As nostalgic as that is, it doesn't make any sense in regards to a tabletop RPG. I mean, it works in a video game, because they have a very tight leash on where you can go at any given time. A tabletop RPG is supposed to present a believable world, where the players have complete freedom to go anywhere they want, so why wouldn't they just take some easy (low-level) missions and grind away until they can afford end-game equipment?

Thought I was one of the last Phantasy Star fans left. I still own 2,3,4 and online on the Dreamcast and Gamecube.

Think I tried a Homebrew D6, PS. Works for games, not a fan of letting PCs buy items.