PC Roles (New Design and Development Article)

[Rechan]

I'm not sure if this sort of archetype jujitsu is appropriate, but to me, the ranger is pretty much the medieval cowboy. He handles animals, he shoots, he can can live off the land. "Strong Silent Type" has ranger written all over it.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I can't decide whether or not the ranger's absence from the article on the "martial power source" is indicative of its being a "divine class" or of its absence from the first Player's Handbook.

We know for a fact that they're working on Fourth Edition versions of all eleven classes from the current Player's Handbook, with those that don't make the cut first time out appearing in subsequent volumes. Whatever we've heard about the ranger "killing the scout and taking his stuff", or anything else, could be in reference to a ranger which they don't intend to include in the first set of core rulebooks - just as they've mentioned the bard, and the monk, which almost certainly won't make the cut.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

If there's a separate Natural power source, then I'd have their four core roles as:

Defender: Beastwalker (kills 3e Wildshape Druid and THS.)
Leader: Bard
Controller: Druid
Striker: Ranger

Why Bard as the Leader? Because you always get Bards with Druids! It's like a package deal. Also, in 1e Bards knew Druid spells.

(Yes, I know they're nothing like the ancient Celts.)

 

[hong]

So the non-core fighter in a game where optimization is the key to success can be complicated?

Core as well. Experience tells you that Toughness is not a good feat, but experience is not something newbie players have.

I don't think that makes the fighter class complicated.

It is possible to get Whirlwind Attack by 6th level. A newbie player would not be likely to know this.

It is also a bad choice to get Whirlwind Attack, whether at 6th level or higher. A newbie player would definitely not know this.

 

[Aloïsius]

C
It is possible to get Whirlwind Attack by 6th level. A newbie player would not be likely to know this.

It's possible to get it at 5th level.
human
1 Barbarian 1 : expertise, dodge
2 ..
3 Barbarian 3 : mobility
4 Ftr1/barb 3 : spring attack
5 Ftr2/barb 3 : whirlwhind attack


As for your point 2, I think whirlwind attack will be more usefull in 4e (more monsters) than in3e.

 

[Andor]

Okay, so it's apropos of nothing, but the ranger tagged to the 'Divine' source grates a little at me, in the way it might for anyone who hated spellcasting rangers.

Congratulations, D&D. Considering the ranger likely wouldn't exist in the books but for Aragorn, you've once again made him difficult to replicate with the ranger class.

And the 'Getting it backwards award' goes to...

Aragorn is why rangers cast spells. He had powers of healing and divination and he used them pretty frequently.

What I personally like about Divine spellcasting rangers is that depending on spell selections you can cover a lot of other archetypes from native american warriors with a mystical tie to the land to african or southamerican jungle warriors with shamanistic or totemic powers, or yamabushi and other flavors of warrior-mystic.

 

[Nikosandros]

Core as well. Experience tells you that Toughness is not a good feat, but experience is not something newbie players have.

I could tell that toughness sucked upon first reading it, back in 2000...

It is also a bad choice to get Whirlwind Attack, whether at 6th level or higher. A newbie player would definitely not know this.

Here I agree with you... at first it looked like a good feat.

 

[Aloïsius]

Here I agree with you... at first it looked like a good feat.

In 3.0, with 3.0 haste, it was good. Because it stacked with power attack, cleave, and off-hand attacks. I remember a character of mine charging (while hasted) in the middle of an ennemy hord, and killing it in three or four rounds. WW + great cleave was alot of fun. It was kind of cheesy, but it's always fun to sit atop a real pile of fallen monsters... His nickname was "mixer-sama" cause he was somewhat samurai-ish.

 

[JoelF]

I still just don't like the whole 'Role' concept. It feels to me that they're going to have to pigeonhole classes into one of these, instead of just saying, lets make a class cool with different abilities from the other classes. I also think it will lead new players to have more of a "do what you're told to" by the core books instead of trying new ideas out.

"Oh, I'm playing a fighter, I guess I can't be the party leader and tactician". To me buff abilities don't make a leader, but crafting a plan and convincing your party members to follow it is what makes a leader, or being the guy who is the spokesperson is the leader.

Similarly, I think some classes should have the flexibility to be many roles, depending on how you select their spells/abilities - wizard is a perfect example - if you go with evocations and combat spells, you're a striker, but if you go with enchantments, illusions, and summoning spells, you're a controller.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

And the 'Getting it backwards award' goes to...

Aragorn is why rangers cast spells. He had powers of healing and divination and he used them pretty frequently.

What I personally like about Divine spellcasting rangers is that depending on spell selections you can cover a lot of other archetypes from native american warriors with a mystical tie to the land to african or southamerican jungle warriors with shamanistic or totemic powers, or yamabushi and other flavors of warrior-mystic.

You'll have to forgive me, I forgot about the many times Aragorn teleports through trees, paralyzes animals or causes them to double in size, summons woodland creatures against the orcs, shields himself from flame so he can walk through it unharmed, walks on water, transforms into a tree or commands one to do his bidding, and convinces the wind to protect him from arrows. Via prayers to nature.

Alright, I confess I don't have the cerebral masochism necessary to slog through a Tolkien novel, but none of that stands out in my head, nor do the lack-luster cure spells or absolutely effin' useless divinations do much to make up for the lack of any of these things having occured.