PCgen to start charging for Data?!

[MythosaAkira]

The problem is not bugs but thier constant restructuring of the data files and changing of the Syntax. In the last 6 months there have been two major changes that invalidated previous data sets.

I would hope that some sort of backwards-compatibility would be maintained. Once money enters the picture, people's tolerance changes a great deal (as we've already seen).

Obviously, WotC and CMP can conduct business however they wish, and WotC can do what it wants with its IP. But this subscription model seems pretty kludgy at this point.

I'm also curious as to what the updates will truly entail. If you have subscribe to get updates to use the same data you already bought (i.e.; the format recognized by the program changes), as a consumer, I would find that unacceptable. If the updates are to correct errors in a dataset (say, the BAB for a prestige class is incorrect), I would also expect that update to be made available for free. If an update is released because more information has been added, that's a bit different, but then I would have to ask: why was data left out in the first place? If I bought a dataset for, say, Sword & Fist, I'd expect it to have the equipment, prestige classes, feats, etc. that were in the book.

The current idea being presented is not something I would go for, though as they've said, it's only the preliminary idea, so I'll wait to see what happens.

 

[Nine Hands]

heres my question are the data sets for wotc books going to be available for etools for same price or free?
reason i'm asking is well people already payed retail cost for etools and a lot of custom data has already been done to add the missing prestige classes ect to it as well as forgottenrealms stuff ect.
Would be pretty crappy to have to pay again to get that data.

Pay again???

You never paid for the extra data in the first place. No one did

If you and some friends write up your own files, that's fine. CMP is offering to do the grunt work for you....legally...for a fee. Maybe the best bet for you is to open MS Access and make the changes yourself, its not that difficult. Or let someone who is more proficient spend thier time and compensate them for it.

I'd rather have a comprehensive dataset that has been coded correctly and has at least been tested by someone rather than spend my time coding something that may or may not be correct. I speak from experience here, I have worked on PCGen for quite a while (mostly on my own) but I now do QA work for OGL files. Its a lot of work, for which I do not get paid (not that I am complaining Mynex!!!)

Also the prices quoted this weekend are still up in the air. Bryan, Mynex, Tir and the rest of really good people and the do listen. Heck they put up with my crap for the last few years

Another thing to think about (and this may not work for e-tools) is that PCGen has a LST converter built in. Every time a LST file tag is changed, it is recorded so that the LST converter can automatically fix it. Some things (like changing from one file type to another, like class skills in the previous versions) is not covered, but generally the program works correctly. If after a year, you need to update the files, you can just run the LST converter.

-John-

PCGen QA Tamarin

 

[Hardhead]

Pay again???

You never paid for the extra data in the first place. No one did

If you and some friends write up your own files, that's fine. CMP is offering to do the grunt work for you....legally...for a fee. Maybe the best bet for you is to open MS Access and make the changes yourself, its not that difficult. Or let someone who is more proficient spend thier time and compensate them for it.

Ever since the program came out, WotC has had no problems with fans putting WotC products into the program and sharing them.

If that's about to change because WotC sold the rights to e-Tools data files to CMP, then there's going to be a lot of fans angry at CMP.

I never did buy the program, but that's how some people are going to see it.

 

[Ranger REG]

What do I get for a $5 annual subscription?

 

[Morik]

I would pay

Hm, first time I noticed the post and the content I were glad to hear that WOTc had finnaly come to senses and let PCGen Team-Member do the stuff for them.

I have ever felt somehow guilty to use all the free-stuff of PCGen while the PCGen people doing all the hard work for free.

At first thought I were happy to pay them finally for all the really good work the done and will do in the future.

BUT to pay a yearly-subscription for data-sets you already paid for in the past is REALLY not a good thing.

But hey, surely the folk over at PCGen will read the post here too (you can be sure of that) and maybe they will re-consider this unfortunate payment option.

If we are all lucky they will offer other paying options, like a flat-rate for all books. Or more paying options and one can choose the one that fits best for the respective customer?

A flat-rate can be as high as 30-50$ per the first year and then
only 10-15$ in the second and the following years.

Okay, the first seems very high but I would pay along that line as long as there is some incentive for the customer for being a "constant customer".

They must be some common ground for customer and company unless we are all end up doing the pen-paper thing again.

If I only had more time I would still doing pen&paper creation anyway but I'm now used to the wonderful PCGen time-saving option.

 

[Henry]

The problem is not bugs but thier constant restructuring of the data files and changing of the Syntax. In the last 6 months there have been two major changes that invalidated previous data sets.

Jenkin, Don't forget the REASONS for these changes - in both cases, massive leaps toward standardization of all variables and presentations were made. They are working toward LESS restructuring in the future, not more.

However, you do have a major case in one point: PCGen is planning a restructuring of all data sets to an XML format, rather than the current home-grown LST format. If this change is mandatory, (in other words, they don't fork PCGen), and it occurs AFTER their charge plan is implemented, then there will be one major upgrade that will be unavoidable. However, I do not expect that it will change the way I use PCGen in the slightest.

For me, spending, let's say, $30.00 per year for 10 WotC books (which I don't even use that many, more like 4 or 5), is a pittance - for me, it represents one month's game purchases. So what do I do? I will drop one gaming book for one month, in exchange for several $3.00 purchases spread out over the course of a year.

In a nutshell, it's not a bad deal. If I feel that strongly, I will use the free LST editors to enter the info I need to generate my character anyway - I don't need EVERY feat, prestige class, skill, or spell in PCGen - just the ones I am going to use.

 

[Shiva]

You know, I've been trying to find the page on the CMP site that indicates that there will be an annual charge. But for the life of me I just can't see it. Can someone please post the URL?

 

[Henry]

No one has specifically said there will be an annual charge, to my knowledge, but the data files are continually undergoing at present revision and improvement. As a result, there will likely be some obselence of data as time goes on, and this is what the concern is.

 

[storyguide3]

Many assumptions, Few solid facts

So people are going out of their minds on the assumption that Codemonkeywill regularly invalidate the data sets, AND the further assumtion that those who purchased the sets the first time will not receive a free upgrade. Is that what's happening? That's an awful lot to be reading into CodeMonkey's announcment. Looks like people yearning for something to complain about.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I would gladly pay 40 dollars for PCGen (hell I did it for ETOOLS and look what I got) *IF* I could get at least a bundle of premium content with it. I am afraid I do, however, side with the camp that has repeatedly stated their dismay at a possible annual subscription fee for individual premium books. I will not pay an annual fee, I find it silly and unnecessary. Having said that, many programs charge for updates and are worth it (Windows Nt 4, Win2000, winXP, office 97, off2000, offxp, etc. etc.) to those who shell out the dollars. So, why cant PCGen come out with say, PCGen 2003, bundled with all the splatbooks and maybe your choice of 3 or 4 other premium books for a 40 dollar or so fee?