PCgen to start charging for Data?!

[gariig]

Re: Many assumptions, Few solid facts

So people are going out of their minds on the assumption that Codemonkeywill regularly invalidate the data sets, AND the further assumtion that those who purchased the sets the first time will not receive a free upgrade. Is that what's happening? That's an awful lot to be reading into CodeMonkey's announcment. Looks like people yearning for something to complain about.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Ok, it was hypothetical. I agree CMP seems like a great group, but money makes people do strange thinks. I will hold to that they won't do it. However, they do have about a 6-8 month LST revamp cycle. Plus, they are going to an XML version soon. I will probably wait 2 months after the XML conversition to start buying. Assuming 2 months to get some of the major bugs out from the conversion. I really hope they go to a one time fee instead of subscription. Someone mentioned Office and Windows, i'm not even forced to buy those, but I do get updated technology and a better running system.

Gariig

 

[bloodydrake]

Pay again???

You never paid for the extra data in the first place. No one did

sorry your missunderstanding what i'm trying to say.
Etools:
Its a retail product by wizards... I pay full retail for it..its buggy and lacking in alot of area's..but the community support fills in those holes.

Now Pcgen and etools will be both be given access to the same data files and the end user will now have to pay for them regardless of wether its for etools or pcgen.
Now due to this IF..(big if) the community files are removed due to this DEAL I see a problem.

This i feel is wrong I've already paid retail cost for an official DnD character/npc generator with the ability to create my own custom data for other source books not included with it..
If now things are turned around and people are made to remove homegrown data for etools and i have TO PAY AGAIN to get it ..thats crap,I already paid wizards for their Character/NPC generator.

IF thats how its going to work..might as well just delete etools completely from product market because it will have no benifit over pcgen other then it cost the user and extra 40 bucks for the privilage of buying it..that makes no sense at all.

So yes as a retail procuct i think etools users should have access to these files for either no extra cost or far less of a cost then pcgen users.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

No one has specifically said there will be an annual charge, to my knowledge, but the data files are continually undergoing at present revision and improvement. As a result, there will likely be some obselence of data as time goes on, and this is what the concern is.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=129

Here is the link for the Q&A. In it it states that the cost is for initial purchase plus 1 year of updates.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=130

And this is another thread where the Monkeys repeatedly answered questions with yearly repurchases being refered to by them.

 

[Hardhead]

You know, I've been trying to find the page on the CMP site that indicates that there will be an annual charge. But for the life of me I just can't see it. Can someone please post the URL?

Mynex posted on the boards that you'd get free updates for "one year." It's not actually a subscription, but PCGen has traditionally changed syntax so often that you *would* end up having to rebuy your LST files every year if that were the case.

Anyway, Mynex recently posted that plans weren't finalized, nothing set in stone. I think they're seeing how much everyone hates the "for one year" part, and are rethinking it.

 

[Rifter]

So, we buy E-tools, ($40)... then, we buy... say Forgotten Realms. ($40), then, we buy the FR Data set ($5), so, to make a FR character, in E-tools, and play it... we spend a grand total of $85. Isn't that a BIT steep? Now, I could honesty see, say a $20/yr charge for new data sets, as long as they were released within 1 to 2 weeks of a new book coming out. But, Not $1-$5 per pop... heck, I could ALMOST see $1 per book, but any more, and I feel that I am being very ripped off. These are called value-added things, that make people WANT to buy your product. I understand the programmers wanting to make some money, but I honestly believe they are going too far, or that WOTC is really screwing them over, making them have to charge these kinds of prices, to recoup their costs, and make a little money.

 

[Henry]

Jenkin, thanks for the links. It's nice to know that they are planning to support it for a certain period of time if the data formats DO change.

It still doesn't change what I'm currently doing with PCGen, but will add the option to get the WotC Splatbook stuff if needed.

 

[bushfire]

Ever since the program came out, WotC has had no problems with fans putting WotC products into the program and sharing them.

If that's about to change because WotC sold the rights to e-Tools data files to CMP, then there's going to be a lot of fans angry at CMP.

I never did buy the program, but that's how some people are going to see it.

Well then they better start getting angry. The eTools repository has been down for some time (possibly totally unrelated) and today the eTools MSN group removed all the non-OGL files from the file section, citing the recent CMP announcement as the reason.

So there is now only a few places that still have any eTools files, and most of those are incomplete or have things that don't work right (mostly because of limits in eTools).

I expect that it will be the same as when PCGen removed all the non-OGL data. Some people will bitch, most will not.

The benefit will be that CMP will be releasing data sets that should *actually work* for both eTools and for PCGen. That these will cost a trivial amount of money (compared to the time required by me to enter the data myself) is nothing.

Unlike PCGen I don't think anyone was ever under the illusion that new data sets for eTools would ever be offered for free. At least *nothing* Wotc ever said could lead anyone to think that.

 

[Max]

Anyway, Mynex recently posted that plans weren't finalized, nothing set in stone. I think they're seeing how much everyone hates the "for one year" part, and are rethinking it.

Bryan posted today they are thinking of making it a 3 year free update period, instead of 1 year.

http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=36

Max

 

[DaveMage]

For PC Gen costs, I'm sure our friends "Supply" and "Demand" will ultimately decide its pricing, but it would be a shame to wait a couple years for that to happen.

I'd like to see the pricing based on packages.

For example, Current spatbooks/accesories are $19.99 [total for all].
Current FR stuff is $19.99 [total for all].

Then, each year there could be a new update, for example, a
2004 update for, again, $19.99.

As for support for PC Gen, since the program is free, support should be at the convenience of the programmers, although the charged-for data files should be free from errors, and patched if necessary for the version of PC Gen they were designed for.

I don't like software subscriptions - I'd rather pay a larger up-front cost and get free updates.

For e-tools, though, *any* support would appear to be an improvement.

 

[gariig]

3 years you say? Hmm, I still hate the thought of subscription, but 3 years wouldn't be so bad. I still prefer "life" as I see it the LST(or XML or whatevery they may be) are made, I buy, and errors THEY put in should be fixed...but that is just me.

Yet, full text non-SRD for $3-5 over 3 years..wouldn't be bad, not at all.

Gariig