D&D 5E (2014) Perception vs Investigate

[iserith]

It sounds like you think this is an important distinction, and that there's a right way and a wrong way to approach skill checks.

It isn't, and there isn't. No need to navel-gaze about the fine points of roleplaying protocol. It doesn't answer the question of "What's up with Investigate and Perception?", anyway.

I disagree - while I make no judgment as to whether there is a right or wrong to it, it does appear based on the responses that how one views the overlap between the two can be influenced by who gets to call for a check at a given table.

 

[iserith]

Right, the approach determines the appropriate ability/skill.

Sure, but I have seen some tables where the player's description of the fictional approach is replaced by the statement "make X ability check" followed by a goal e.g. "I make a Perception check to search for traps on the door." This doesn't exactly tell us what the character is doing, leaving it to the DM to assume the character's specific actions in step 3. I imagine this has an influence over how Perception and Investigation are handled since a player in such a game has incentive to try to search for traps by "using Investigation" if that is his or her character's proficiency.

 

[SkidAce]

'Aaaah, here it is, the passage on 'Ascension to Lichdom' written by Xyzlax the Maggot himself.'

Such an evocative name, Can I use Xyzlax the Maggot?

 

[JonnyP71]

Such an evocative name, Can I use Xyzlax the Maggot?

Sure, I made it up on the spur of the moment while sneakily typing that comment, trying to avoid the watchful gaze of my manager.....

 

[iserith]

Sure, I made it up on the spur of the moment while sneakily typing that comment, trying to avoid the watchful gaze of my manager.....

Was your manager the inspiration for Xyzlax the Maggot? You can tell me.

 

[JonnyP71]

It's very possible she may have been - subconsciously...

 

[robus]

Sure, but I have seen some tables where the player's description of the fictional approach is replaced by the statement "make X ability check" followed by a goal e.g. "I make a Perception check to search for traps on the door." This doesn't exactly tell us what the character is doing, leaving it to the DM to assume the character's specific actions in step 3. I imagine this has an influence over how Perception and Investigation are handled since a player in such a game has incentive to try to search for traps by "using Investigation" if that is his or her character's proficiency.

Well sure - I guess I was assuming the approach would include some interesting description of their interaction with the environment

 

[marcelvdpol]

Perception is about noticing things at a glance; you use your senses to see, hear, smell, taste etc the world around you. Traps which have telltale signs that are noticable to the senses can be spotted using perception. Note that your senses don't tell you how the trap works. Pressure plate activated traps can be spotted by a floor tile being slighly different from the surrounding plates.

Investigation is used when you are trying to find the meaning of something which can be perceived by your senses. The above mentioned pressure plate can be perceived as being "odd" compared to the other floor tiles but the pressure plate itself doesnt tell what will happen if you activate it. other examples of investigation include finding information in a book (the book itself is not hidden from your senses so it doesn't rely on perception), finding a secret compartment (by knocking on the wood or stone), figuring out what will happen if you flip a switch etc.

Investigation is a skill i tend to train if my character has any sort of intelligence. I do favour perception over investigation but that is mostly because wisdom saving throws are more important compared to intelligence saving throws and hence usually has a higher ability score.

 

[DEFCON 1]

As a differing variant to everyone else... I rule in my games that Perception is for finding any living thing that moves and hides, whereas Investigation is for finding inanimate objects that are disguised or hidden.

So enemies that have hidden via Stealth? Use Perception to find them. Traps, secret doors, hidden compartments and the like? Investigation to find them.

I never went in on the "deduce what the stuff you've found means" bit on Investigation, because players more often than not would just interpret what they found themselves rather than asking for hints on "solving" their problems via skill check. And thus, Investigation got barely used while Perception got used way too much.

And it makes the determination of when to use either skill frightfully easily for me, as it's merely "Hey, is that hidden thing alive?"

 

[iserith]

I never went in on the "deduce what the stuff you've found means" bit on Investigation, because players more often than not would just interpret what they found themselves rather than asking for hints on "solving" their problems via skill check. And thus, Investigation got barely used while Perception got used way too much.

That's dangerous though because the player is operating on an assumption, however well-founded. It's always helpful in my view to try to verify that assumption before acting on it.