Persistent Spell [CA]

[Hypersmurf]

Invisibility's range is "personal or touch"... It is my understanding that this is not the same as having a fixed range nor is it the same as having a personal range. I'm pretty sure you can't use persistent spell on invisibility.

It can be cast in two forms, like Fire Shield or Fire Seeds.

In one form, its range is Personal. In the other, it's Touch.

-Hyp.

 

[marune]

It can be cast in two forms, like Fire Shield or Fire Seeds.

In one form, its range is Personal. In the other, it's Touch.

-Hyp.

Why a spell like Invisibilty has a range like "Personal or Touch" and a spell like Shield of Faith has a range like "Creature touched".

If we forget about Persistent spell, what is the goal to make them different? I never doubt that a creature touched range meant that the spell can be used on the caster.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I never doubt that a creature touched range meant that the spell can be used on the caster.

Exactly. It can be used on the caster. So the only difference is for effects that can only be applied to Personal spells... like Persistent Spell.

-Hyp.

 

[marune]

Exactly. It can be used on the caster. So the only difference is for effects that can only be applied to Personal spells... like Persistent Spell.

-Hyp.

So, why Invisibility doesn't have Range : Creature touched like many others? Why add or Personal?

 

[Sithobi1]

Hyp's point is that they WANT you to persist it.

 

[marune]

Hyp's point is that they WANT you to persist it.

Oh I see, so they added the or to some "creature touched" spells to add them the specific properties of "personal" spells.

I'm not sure I like this, but I understand that it is needed for balance.

 

[Sithobi1]

Maybe this invalidates them for potions...

 

[Ditch]

Wait, so they added this "personal or touch" to invisibility because they wanted you to use persistent spell feat on it? I'm trying to think of any other effect that requires the spell be range: personal in order for it to work, and I just can't think of any.

By the way, 3.0 ed. PHB also has Invisibility range at personal or touch and it's copyright 2000. The first time I ever saw Persistent Spell feat published was in FR Campaign Setting, which is copyright 2001, so I doubt very seriously that this is the case. Again, I don't think that you can persistent spell invis, but I've been wrong before. A better question is why would you want to since you'd just lose it as soon as you took a hostile action? My personal favorite spell to use persistent spell on is Detect Scrying.

Anyone recall any FAQ's that discussed this? Even a 3.0 FAQ may help.

 

[Ditch]

Actually Sith, this really doesn't effect the spell at all unless I'm missing some minor nuance that is caused by adding the "personal" wording to the range. If a spells range is "touch" then you simply touch yourself to cast the spell onto your person, like any other touch ranged spell (cure light wounds, etc).

Potions can be made of any spell of 3rd level or lower that targets one or more creatures. There are potions of invis in the DMG and the spell does in fact target one or more creatures, regardless of the "personal" range.

I do see one possible use...
Range: Personal - The spell effects only you.
Range: Touch - You must touch a creature of object in order to affect it.

What if someone casts Hold Person on you and you happen to have Eschew Materials, Still Spell and Silent Spell and mem'd an Invisibility as a 4th level spell (applying the meta-magic feats). You could then (according to the letter of the rules) cast invisibility onto yourself while held, since you don't have to touch yourself. What a stretch! There must be more to it or else it's just a typo.

 

[marune]

My personal favorite spell to use persistent spell on is Detect Scrying.

Divine Power (in a 10th level slot) isn't bad either.