PHB Cleric = Unbalanced?

[Aust Diamondew]

IMO clerics and druids are the most powerful core classes. I'm not sure if they're overpowered. Their spell casting is just as good as wizards, just different IMO (doesn't gain offensive power till higher levels for one), cast in armor, better proficiencies, better BAB, HD and saves.

 

[Humanophile]

I guess my biggest beef with the cleric is that it's often a better spellcaster than the arcane casters. Compared to the wizard, the cleric has access to more spells, more spell slots (even assuming a specialist to counter the domain spells), and can hold their own on the defense and utility fields. The combat perks and extra class features really just seal the deal. Not to mention, if you swap out class features or focus on something other than party support, it's easy for the cleric's ... "I'd be built on more points than anybody else" stats to make anyone else feel sub-par. Ironically,

Still, I don't have much in the way of cleric-nerfing house rules. I do wonder what a hypothetical 4e will bring out as alternate healing rules; the less the party needs a dedicated walking medkit, the less you'll have the classic D&D conceit of "someone needs to play the healer", and the less bribery will have to ensue. It'll be interesting to see where they balance out to after that.

 

[DonTadow]

Mechanically on paper its over powered, as is the paladin. But they are both classes that are balances by their role playing requirements. Both classes can be stripped of their powers quite easily. DM's whom fail to take advantage of their obvious weakness will be the only ones to find clerics unbalanced in game.

 

[Agback]

The cleric was balanced with the "walking band-aid" mode of gameplay in mind.

Yep. Furthermore, the cleric was designed with dungeon-bashing in mind, where a party has to make it through encounter after encounter in the same day. A buff-and-bash cleric might own a fighter in a duel, blowing all his spells on buffs. But fighting against monsters in a series of encounters the fighter keeps on keeping on, whereas the cleric soon runs out of spells and falls back a notch or two.

Between the fact that curing and restoring comrades makes demands on the spell list, and the fact that buffs only last for one fight, a cleric who is a member of a party in a dungeon is two long steps behind a cleric going one-on-one in a smackdown.

 

[Staffan]

I'm thinking that the cleric straight out of the PH is on the strong side, but not overly so. However, clerics and druids tend to get more mileage out of splatbooks, because they automatically know all the spells on their lists. A wizard gets a slight boost from something like Complete Arcane, but not overly so - he still only gets two free spells per level, and have to buy the rest. A fighter gets a slight boost from something like Complete Warrior - he still has to get the cool stuff with his limited feats. But a cleric gets a major boost from Complete Divine, because it increases his spell selection by something like 50%.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I guess my biggest beef with the cleric is that it's often a better spellcaster than the arcane casters. Compared to the wizard, the cleric has access to more spells, more spell slots (even assuming a specialist to counter the domain spells), and can hold their own on the defense and utility fields.

I don't think that the extra slots and access to all spells immediately is enough to make cleric spells compete with those of a wizard, even including domain spells. I've played both, and wizard certainly has more power.

Of course I play the sort of wizard that makes it a priority to fill his spellbook. A wizard with only his default spells per level is a pretty sad beast.

 

[helium3]

Clerics are Broken?

Anyone who says that clerics are overpowered has never seen a 16th level goblin barbarian in action. I have and it's scary. High level barbarians (even small sized ones) do ridiculous amounts of damage per round and have HUGE numbers of hit points. We had a 16th level cleric in the same group and I STILL thought the Barbarian was by far the most powerful.

 

[tetsujin28]

I think as long as you stick to the WoTC stuff all the classes & races are pretty balanced. It's only when you get into some of the third party stuff you get unbalanced classes & races.

Yup. Clerics even balance nicely with the Favoured Soul from Complete Divine, who doesn't get all armours (only light and medium) and has no domains, but casts spells spontaneously and gets a few extra goodies (eventual deity's weapon focus and specialization, elemental DR, and wings).

 

[tetsujin28]

IMO clerics and druids are the most powerful core classes. I'm not sure if they're overpowered. Their spell casting is just as good as wizards, just different IMO (doesn't gain offensive power till higher levels for one), cast in armor, better proficiencies, better BAB, HD and saves.

Clerics aren't as useful in as many situations as a wizard.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Clerics aren't as useful in as many situations as a wizard.

Clerics aren't as useful in as many situations as a properly prepared wizard. A wizard who hasn't prepared a useful selection of spells is a sack of meat waiting to be eaten. A cleric who hasn't prepared a useful selection of spells can always heal and mix it up in melee.

I agree with those who've said that a cleric is, mechanically, the most powerful class, but has a serious image problem. Once players twig to the mechanical advantages of the cleric, and make a conscious decision not to use it as a "healbot" (as someone described it), then there is little other choice for best all-round character class. Even using solely SRD material. What's not to like about a class with access to all armours (except tower shields), a goodly range of weapons, two good saves where they're most needed (Reflex is just "save or be injured" - Fort and Will are "save or be incapacitated") with prime ability support for Will saves, spontaneous casting, turn undead, "full" spellcasting, more spells per day than anyone else except the sorcerer, and access to all spells in their spell list?

Cheers, Al'Kelhar