Picking up a weapon in an enemies square

[Tiew]

Hey everybody, this problem has come up before. Can you pick up your weapon if it's in an opponents square? What if you have enough ranks in tumble to tumble through the enemies square? What if you fail the tumble check but don't mind taking the attack of opportunity? What if the enemy puts their foot down on the weapon? Is putting your foot on something a free action?

I had about a 20-30 minute argument with the other guy the last time this came up. The difference is this time I'll be the DM. That actually makes things trickery though because I don't want him to think I'm being unfair. I'd like to be able to give good justification for what I rule and explain how it works.

If you're wondering, this will probably come up when his rapier wielding rogue faces the Githzersia spiked chain wielding fighter/rogue NPC I just built. If I'm not mistaken a succesful disarm puts your weapon at your opponents feet. Any suggestions on how to resolve this would be much appreciated.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Picking up an item is a move-equivalent action. You shouldn't be able to pick up an item while tumbling, because you can't take a move-equivalent action in the middle of a move action (IMO).

If you want to pickup up an item in an opponent's square, IMO, you need to go into that square. To do so would require to push the opponent out of the square, per the Bull Rush move. Bull rush as a standard action and pick up the item as a move-equivalent action.

AR

 

[Starglim]

Move Action Attack of Opportunity
..
Pick up an item Yes

Humans have an unarmed reach of 5 feet, so I would allow a character to reach into his opponent's square to pick up something. I'd give the opponent's attack of opportunity a +2 bonus as if the character was kneeling.


edit: Putting your foot on something should be a free action (but not a reaction).

You can tumble as part of movement, but a move action in this case is not counted as movement.

I think, generally, there should be an addition to the Tumble skill to allow you to perform another action during a tumble at an increased DC. That would be a house rule.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Humans have an unarmed reach of 5 feet, so I would allow a character to reach into his opponent's square to pick up something. I'd give the opponent's attack of opportunity a +2 bonus as if the character was kneeling.

Too lenient, IMO. There's a feat that, when you disarm an opponent, you can catch the weapon with your off-hand if it's empty. This would make that particular feat pretty moot.

Also, if your opponent dropped his weapon, then he's probably unarmed, and thus, non-threatening. Picking up his dropped weapon would become too easy (because it would not draw an AoO from the opponent)

You can tumble as part of movement, but a move action in this case is not counted as movement.

I think, generally, there should be an addition to the Tumble skill to allow you to perform another action during a tumble at an increased DC. That would be a house rule.

Or it could be a feat. Spring attack, Shot on the run, Cast on the move (not sure about the last one. I think it exists, under another name). Another feat, with Dodge and Mobility as prerequisites, could let you do a move-equivalent action in the middle of a move.

AR

 

[Liquidsabre]

Reaching into opponent's space - Provokes AoO #1
Picking up Item - Provokes AoO #2

Disarm p.155 "...you knock the opponent's weapon out of his hands and to the ground."

 

[Tiew]

Because it isn't complicated enough... Can you use the AoO provoked by picking up a weapon to disarm the person picking it up? Is it in their hands when the AoO is provoked?

 

[Starglim]

Because it isn't complicated enough... Can you use the AoO provoked by picking up a weapon to disarm the person picking it up? Is it in their hands when the AoO is provoked?

No, an attack of opportunity interrupts the action that drew the attack. However, for maximum cheese, you could disarm some other weapon that the picker-up happened to be carrying.

 

[Liquidsabre]

No, an attack of opportunity interrupts the action that drew the attack.

In general an AoO may only interupt the action that provoked it if the rules say they do; as with the AoO provoked by a grapple attempt. All other AoO do not interupt the actions, movement is not interupted by an AoO for example and so on. However the AoO occurs before the event it provokes, so the AoO for picking up a weapon is made and hits, then the weapon is picked up, no interupt.

I'd argue that as with the start of a grapple attempt (reaching into opponent's square unarmed) that on a successful AoO hit the attempt is indeed interupted. But only on the AoO provoked by reaching into a foes square unarmed (i.e. without improved unarmed strike feat or not a monk).

 

[Starglim]

In general an AoO may only interupt the action that provoked it if the rules say they do; as with the AoO provoked by a grapple attempt. All other AoO do not interupt the actions, movement is not interupted by an AoO for example and so on. However the AoO occurs before the event it provokes

Sorry, I misspoke, that was what I meant by "interrupts". In this case, because the AoO happens just before picking up the weapon, the opponent can't use the AoO to disarm that weapon since the picker-up doesn't yet have it in hand. The picker-up takes damage, and then picks up the weapon.

 

[aurance]

edit: oopsy, misunderstood.