Piracy

[Krensky]

Now, why the hell should I have to pay for individual films at say $10 each, or as I@m sure the rat-pukes will try to do, 100 films on 1 disc for $500 or so...
we should be getting 100 films, Of OUR CHOICE, burned to disc, or entire catalogue sof 1 star or studio for $10.

Only if the owners choose to sell it for a dime a film. Which in some cases they might. In may cases, especially for newer, popular works they won't because people will pay more for it.

Why? cause they are old, cause the tech means we'll one day be able to have entire collections of all works on one storage unit so why the blazes should we pay for every item except for a few cents (you wanna pay $10,000 for a bloody single DVD?!)...and we, as cosnumers need to stop being lead by the nose and robbed!

Old != worthless or valueless. As for pricing, just like everything else you pay what the seller is willing to sell it for. Why should this change just because you thing it's worthless? If it's too much for you, don't buy it.

It'a a digitla age folks! wake up.
One day you'll be able to take a pciture of any object and a mahcine build it for you..so how the hell cna oyu own "copyrights"?

Uh huh. Copyright or patents and rights to the plans in question will still be worth money, even with nano-fabrication. There's been a number of works examining this.

Here in UK, any venue that plays music has to by a license, this license money is paid to artists. Everyone profits.
Same with other art could be done.

That's the case in the US, and probably a lot of other countries. That's copyright at work too.

You pay your subscription fee, that goes to the artists *Not* corporate ghouls. Bonus for every download so more poopular/good you are, more you earn.
This solves both models of support!

You need to get over your hate of corporations. They, as a theoretical entity, are amoral, not immoral. They are certainly not evil. People running them can be immoral. Usually they're just stupid and short sighted though. Your subscription scheme, which already exists from a number of artists and publishers, doesn't cut corporations out of the picture.

So, for WOTC, you pay them your DDI or whatever subscription fee and should get PDFs of *every* WOTC item. Not too long until books are largely replaced by electronic books, this saves WOTC printing and distribution costs.

Printed books will, in all likely hood, never fully disappear. They may be relegated to art, but printed books aren't going away soon, or in the forseeable future. I happen to read most of my stuff on my netbook or Palm, but still find hardcopy books ejonyable.

We cannot stop priacy, it's impossible, except by draocnian,evil actions that are the antithesis of modern, democratic, decent governance (which is exaclty what the RIAA and their ilk are trying to screw with! Way to go fining grannies for $25,000! Searches without warrants, etc).

True. Content companies need to focus on counterfiting counterfiting operations and adjusting their price structure and accept that a certain amount of piracy will happen. Baen books decided to go this way and seems to be doing quite well.

non-commericla piracy IS good civil disobedience. Make them all heed our will and give us digital art at prices we agree with.
Digital = not using up finite physical resources.

So, the materials used in manufacturing storage devices aren't limited? Energy isn't limited?

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I know some people who go to a bookstore, sit down, and over the course of several days, read a book or magazine, never buying it. That is legal.

I know some people who go to a bookstore, sit down, thumb through a book briefly, decide if they want it, and they buy it or don't. That is legal.

I know some people who go to the library and take out books and read them fully. That is legal.

I know some people who download a pdf to determine if they want to buy the book (i.e. preview it), delete it, and then either buy the book or don't. That is illegal.

I know some people who download a pdf and keep it whether they buy the book or not, and they read the whole thing. That is illegal.


***
It's funny how the rules change when things go digital.

 

[Echohawk]

I know some people who go to a bookstore, sit down, and over the course of several days, read a book or magazine, never buying it. That is legal.

I know some people who go to a bookstore, sit down, thumb through a book briefly, decide if they want it, and they buy it or don't. That is legal.

I know some people who go to the library and take out books and read them fully. That is legal.

I know some people who download a pdf to determine if they want to buy the book (i.e. preview it), delete it, and then either buy the book or don't. That is illegal.

I know some people who download a pdf and keep it whether they buy the book or not, and they read the whole thing. That is illegal.

Technically, the last two are only illegal in some jurisdictions. Downloading (as opposed to distributing) a PDF of dubious origin is not illegal in all countries.

Also, in the first three examples, someone (the bookstore, the library) has usually paid for that book. In the last two examples, it is usually the case that the person distributing the PDF has not paid for it.

So I'm not sure these are altogether fair comparisons, either in terms of legality, or in terms of lost income for the author/publisher.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Keep in mind too that people who do #1 in bookstores might end up getting kicked out, and there's an inconvenience factor in that. Remember "hey, this ain't a library" at news stands can also apply in bookstores. Some products end up being shrink-wrapped as well.

 

[kitsune9]

No way

So the discussion about book piracy in another made me want to post this thread. Have you pirated 4th edition game books before?

Never pirated any material. I like holding printed material in my hands so that would involve shoplifting if want a five finger discount. Given that I don't want 1-5 with good behavior, I just buy my books.

 

[Mercutio01]

I'm going to have to stop commenting now because it's obvious that the problem is not legality. It's that some people believe in the idea of paying people for their work, and others are just itching to remake the world in a completely socialist manner where people are paid for their worth, not their work.

 

[xechnao]

What I personally thing should happen is that ISPs work with the government to punish infrignement by setting up something similar to speeding tickets. There's a cap on punishment unless you are a blantant violated. Say if they discover you illegally downloaded a book and were caught by the logs and CRC checks. You get charged a $100 to a $500 fine. It's added to your ISP bill--don't pay, get cut off. You can argue against this like a traffic ticket. But just like most traffic tickets, people would pay the tickets and avoid the behavior. If we did this, I think it would stop most piracy since the younger set would get in trouble with their parents, and it wouldn't be see by the masses the same way as a 250,000 suit against an individual world.

How about those that downloaded 100, 1000 or 10000 books -which most of the infringers are more or less there- ? How are you gonna make distinctions and how are you going to fine them?

 

[drothgery]

I don't think that the WORK is less valuable, just the resulting product. The thing about hardware vs software is that if you pay a guy in a factory X dollars to build a piece of hardware, and Y dollars on the raw materials to build the item, then it costs Z(which is the total of X and Y) dollars to make a second item exactly the same.

The thing is that if the law favors physical goods over information (and your proposed legal framework does), then it encourages producers to substitue physical goods for information when possible. And I think that's a bad thing.

 

[Evilhalfling]

well I have referenced pirated online PDFs - when I needed to see a book for an online game/argument while at work. I have also browsed them in stores, and back in 3rd era, checked out some books from the local library - (which had a great 3e collection, but has not kept 4e on the shelves)

I purchased core 4e + 3 accessories and have PHBII on order. If im going to use a source regularly I want a physical copy.
I prolly wont get more as my group is converting back, but I look forward to using the free online SRD again.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

A work of art != 'information'.

Information should be free, and all that, yo? Good. Great, even. But see above.

That's the problem. That's the view of today. In times past, people used to create art in order to enlighten, entertain, educate, inspire and so on. They didn't do it because it was a "product" that needed to be marketed. That's a more modern concept.

But it IS just information. It's a thought that occurred to someone and they decided to write down, compose, draw, paint, or whatever. But it's just an idea.

And it is my view that those who are exposed to more culture are smarter, healthier, more adaptable, and better members of our society. A large amount of the problems in the world happen due to lack of education, lack of access to information and culture. The more these things are spread around, the better the world is for EVERYONE.

The major problem with society over the past two hundred years or so is that people have decided that information and culture should be restricted to only those who can afford them.

I just don't see any way for technology to evolve the way it has been without IP and Copyright Laws both being MAJORLY overhauled. For our society to advance, we need to be able to share these things. Right now, there are too many companies who own the exclusive rights to technology that, if combined, could likely make our lives way better. But because each of them owns the rights to their own parts of the puzzle, they won't be combined for the next 50 or 100 years. It sets our society back.