Planescape Planescape Clerics

[Rils]

One of the peculiarities of Planescape is how geographical location determined your level in regards to divine spells - an 8th level cleric who was five planes away from their deity's realm (as counted on the Great Wheel) would cast spells as a 3rd level cleric. While there are Fluff Reasons for this, it seems like it would be a giant headache to track in play.

We we are going to be starting up a 5e Planescape campaign soon. Does anyone have experience with this and can offer some guidance or suggestions? Is it as big a pain as it sounds? Or are there ways within the 5e system to achieve the same sort of concept - the farther from home you are, the less powerful you are? Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks!

 

[Patrick McGill]

It wasn't a headache at the time, but because of the differences in when different classes levelled up, you didn't often have equal levels in parties anyway. It was just another thing the party had to deal with as a whole.

5e however is balanced around having all PCs the same level and level of competence, so if I were to DM a 5e Planescape game I wouldn't worry about it beyond some minor fluff (describing how hard it is to feel the power of your diety when far away) without much in the way of mechanical consequence.

It's not such a big part of what makes Planescape feel like Planescape that you would need to worry about it, I would think.

 

[GlassJaw]

Easiest thing is to simply ignore it if it isn't a rule you like, fluff or otherwise. On paper it definitely feels a bit harsh mechanically, although I do like the spriti of it.

I would probably alter such that it only kicks in when the cleric is on a plane that is in opposition to their deity/domain. Even then, I'm not sure I would restrict their access to spells so much, but perhaps a penalty on certain things. Again, something that is plane-specific is probably better than a blanket rule.

 

[Larrin]

It would make sense to perhaps have planar distance interfere with the "divine intervention" ability rather than spellcasting. If you're on the opposite side of the great wheel from you god and you ask them to personally intervene, that might be more difficult than when you're in their backyard. Divine interventions is unreliable enough that making it less (or more) reliable based on planar position isn't going to feel nearly as punishing as hitting them in their main class feature.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I would simplify it to you have advantage on rolls when casting on the deities' plane, no effect if you are on a plane that has one or more of the descriptors of the deities' plane (lawful, chaos, good, evil, neutral), and disadvantage if you are on an outer plane with none of the descriptors of the deities' plane. Alternatively, you could just focus on the deities' plane, and really steroid things there (maximum value when you heal things, increased chance of divine intervention, planar allies agree to work for free, etc.), then the will feel weaker on other planes without you having to do anything.

 

[hawkeyefan]

My 5E campaign uses Planescape quite a bit, but like others have suggested, I ditched all those odd restrictions on magic and so on, unless there's a strong reason for doing so on a specific plane, or something like that.

 

[jgsugden]

I'd add to the proficiency bonus for clerics (and other divine casters) for their magic based upon proximity:

Same plane: +2
1 plane removed: +1
2 planes removed: +0
3 planes removed: -1

I would also consider using the same penalty / bonus to their effective class level for divine class abilities (but not for HP or actual proficiency bonus) (min 1st level). A 1st level cleric on the plane of his deity would be treated as a third level cleric. A 5th level cleric on a plane 4 times removed would cast like a 1st level cleric.

 

[jaelis]

If you want a mechanic to reflect the planar distance, but don't want to alter the game balance of the cleric, you could the way they prepare/change their spells after a long rest. That kind of gets at the "you can't easily contact your deity" thing without being a huge nerf (or bonus).

Normally changing a prepared spell takes 1 minunte per spell level. Maybe in a diametrically opposed plane, you can't change your spells at all, you're stuck with what you have. In a medium distance, the time needed could triple. In the same plane, it could take negligible time.

 

[Greenmtn]

I would simplify it to you have advantage on rolls when casting on the deities' plane, no effect if you are on a plane that has one or more of the descriptors of the deities' plane (lawful, chaos, good, evil, neutral), and disadvantage if you are on an outer plane with none of the descriptors of the deities' plane. Alternatively, you could just focus on the deities' plane, and really steroid things there (maximum value when you heal things, increased chance of divine intervention, planar allies agree to work for free, etc.), then the will feel weaker on other planes without you having to do anything.

Pretty much how I plan on handling it. I've also toyed with the idea of the planes and magic in general with some ideas to keep the concept of planes altering magic but make it more user friendly and easy to follow.

One idea is if it's an opposed plane taking away the ability to cast a spell at a higher level.

 

[Quickleaf]

One of the peculiarities of Planescape is how geographical location determined your level in regards to divine spells - an 8th level cleric who was five planes away from their deity's realm (as counted on the Great Wheel) would cast spells as a 3rd level cleric. While there are Fluff Reasons for this, it seems like it would be a giant headache to track in play.

We we are going to be starting up a 5e Planescape campaign soon. Does anyone have experience with this and can offer some guidance or suggestions? Is it as big a pain as it sounds? Or are there ways within the 5e system to achieve the same sort of concept - the farther from home you are, the less powerful you are? Any ideas would be appreciated, thanks!

Yes, I have experience DMing AD&D Planescape and a brief run of 5e Planescape.

I unequivocally recommend throwing out that bit about "clerics and magic distant from their home-plane suffer drawbacks." Terrible design for a setting all about exploring the planes. Never played with it in AD&D, didn't play with in in 5e.

OTOH, what I *do* recommend paying attention to are spell changes on the planes, spell keys, and the cleric version "power keys" (in my version spell keys & power keys are just different terminology to describe the same thing). Rather than going strictly by what the boxed sets say, I recommend using the boxed sets (Planes of Law, Planes of Chaos, Planes of Conflict) as inspiration for your own adventures & specific planar sites.

The goal isn't to punish, it's to introduce a challenge that facilitates a bit of storytelling. Here's a quick example of adapting the lair of the bitter old balor Kalphazor (and his court of alu-fiend slaves) on the 435th layer of the Abyss.

Abyss, 435th layer
To begin, we have the Abyssal Corruption rules in the 5e DMG. Basically, it's a little roleplaying element, and a timer – if a PC gets corrupted, the party now has 3-6 days to get out of the Abyss before turning chaotic evil. Personally, I'd change the saving throw vs. Abyssal Corruption from a long rest to making a "wicked" choice...instead of simple time corrupting a soul, the DM should be trying to engineer twisted scenarios and dilemmas that make them become their own undoing. It just fits better IMHO.

There's also the classic risk of dying in the Abyss. Good-aligned adventurers who die in the Abyss classically became bodaks.

Then, the AD&D Planes of Chaos details possible changes by spell school. Here are my 5e adaptations:

• Abjuration – No change.
• Conjuration – When summoning creatures, you must draw from Abyssal stock (unless you have a spell key). However, there may be a % chance of a demon being summoned instead of the intended creature; I would have this be a CE succubus or alu-fiend trying to pass herself off for the creature the caster intended to summon.
• Divination – When targeting a demon lord (in this case the balor Kalphazor) with a divination spell, the demon lord automatically recognizes it (unless you have a spell key) and may have the option to cast an spell through the link...usually in the case of scry. Also, detect thoughts cast on demons (or just demon lords, if you prefer) might requires some kind of a sanity check / Wisdom saving throw against short-term madness or a feeblemind effect.
• Enchantment – No change. Except possibly demon lords & their proxies are immune to being charmed (though this could just be Condition Immunity: Charmed in the stat-bl).
• Evocation – No change. Except possibly damage dealing spells might do an extra die of damage...Not sure, I might make that if the damage type suits the layer/site on the Abyss you're visiting.
• Illusion – I'd have these work normally. The book says "illusions operate at 1 level higher", but that seems like a sufficiently minor change (and one not necessarily thematic to the entire Abyss) that I'd just ignore it.
• Necromancy – Casting animate dead allows a manes, petitioner, or other lesser Abyssal monster to take control of the corpse (unless you have a spell key). Also, casting reincarnation causes the target to return as a demon (unless you have a spell key).
• Transmutation – The willing recipient of a beneficial transmutation spell must make a Charisma saving throw or there is an added corruptive / gross / demonic element to the transmutation (unless you have a spell key).